Who is Satoshi? Alleged Bitcoin creator Phil Wilson tells all in interview

Unknown: Okay, two, one. Welcome to the daily exchange guys we’re here with Phil Wilson gave you one of the author of the original Bitcoin white paper and founding member of Satoshi Okamoto Welcome to The Daily Show. Hey Yes sir. We’re very lucky and honored to be joined by Phil Wilson. Phil Wilson who may you may have heard of field before or know him better by his nickname what I’m going to his scrawny but I’m not sure if that’s you got Steve as well as steam although over many of you imagine this might be your first time to meeting Phil Phil is going to tell us virtually original story of Bitcoin institution to come over once and for all Trust me. If you only be going to cryptocurrency you need to watch this because once I heard field story, it just made so much sense to me. And I think everyone will really benefit from that. Obviously, with your affiliation is an author sorry, the three founding members of Satoshi Komodo and pseudonyms sort of the pseudo anonymous group at launch Bitcoin I am struggling on some of these words according to feel the tree or launched himself Dave climate when 40 passed away in 2013. And the controversial Dr. Craig right over Craig’s account and the narrative feel is about to tell us very in some important ways While this might sound like a cliched and click Beatty click Beatty own what that word means the varying degrees to which each of these men claiming to be involved in the creation Bitcoin will surprise you But enough of me waffling This is feel your story obviously thank you so much for giving your time maybe if you want to just try and give us an as an account of Bitcoin how it started? And I guess Satoshi as well bitcoins Bitcoin is not wasn’t correct exactly how well people would imagine that Craig himself was was looking at creating a form of electronic cash because he consulted for the online gaming gambling industry. Any been making tips when he told me we’ve been working on it in this way we communicate in 2008. Early, you said he’d been working on his vision for part time for five years and full time for about a year and a half. Which leads into part of the social Net Promoter backstory is when you’re building a character use some elements of real life. And by that time, had been two years for Craig. So we put in two years is full time for Satoshi have been creating this thing, which is just part of the backstory of a character. Yeah. So so he’d been trying to create some form of electronic cash because online gaming had problems with people payments, credit cards and in lieu using and then revoking the charge or the mega payments for credit card and online service to say, well, they say that it’s time indoors in the online service as well you only see 200 or 200 who’s the one that actually tell the truth is wanting some form of workable electronic cash to solve the issue? Yeah, not only for that for people who was got signed with but taking license it to online gambling services. And early in the late 2007, early 2008 he wrote in Dave climbing to help them out because it run a set of white paper and it done some code but just wasn’t working or congealing or would I didn’t seem to work properly you need help to figure out what the problems are Dave himself even though he’s got experience in using crypto tick he’s got no experience in trying to figure out how to have like a workable electronic cash even though you demos for those people in the community and so Dave himself after two or three weeks, went out to community asking for help to help with his mates out trying to catch project and whether it was on using it or IRC or someone else. At that time, I was actually on using it for me and IRC in assembly language and hacking groups as of late as well as credit time and I saw him asking and sort of some of the results of people just just putting down things impossible. People will try to these people try these people Trojans is not not possible and I was I was interested in seeing if someone could actually create the type of thing because if you’re going to have a planetary civilization one other thing you need is a global currency yet not an international currency like US dollar a human and natural global currency using the SEC the same denomination everywhere Yeah, the price of goods week different to me on on how the transport and we grow and and made or whatever, but the actual symbol of the currency it should be exactly the same. Right? That’s what we’re getting too. So I’m torn between now and 500 years. That’s what’s gonna be happening. If the catalyst could be right now, we could have it in our lifetime. Yeah, that’s how accelerated the change could actually be really exciting. And so I thought well this guy’s asking people for help and just rejecting it the people that should help and years before he liked in the 1990s yet the default file format they’ve been sold sold to someone else and they decide to make the payments on it and so a lot of people’s going well can’t use the default file format for let’s say I want to pronounce it incorrectly it’s gift but it’s not sure Jeff answer this I’m making another fall from it they can use on the new internet yeah right and it’s when I was on campus your forms it it’s I’m looking for the for the message of all the people are talking about the what would end up being the portable meet with graphics or PNG file from yeah and even imagery that for for the the animation money part of it and it’s also what I want to be the central thing is you’re going to see bit of history be actually write the on the sidelines watching it I want to be in the group discussing it to so called assault this Yeah. png file from from for me is I started talking to Dave privately saying well, we’ll take a look at as well no, that was my way we’re just interested in getting someone that can actually help stocks and then I talked to my father gave him my links to have a strategy for debut about my Scotty handling. Yeah, and what I did, but well I didn’t went through to assembly and it will take stuff on the inside. Well, well. Taken topic alone type stuff, maybe. What’s the problem? Is that what the problem is? Is that all these people I’ve got the nose to the grindstone to do too much. Yeah. They can’t see the forest for the trees up done. And what you need someone is a non cryptographer to actually help you out. Yeah, right. And that’s it even though the tunes itself will not know verse was at least I can train yourself up about them at some stage try learning stuff to understand what you’re doing and then trying to help you to find forget how to solve it crossover type thing ever get we get to the stage that I’ve learned so much and I can’t find solution I’ll just walk away right yeah paying these employees and it’s not no it’s not can be an issue Yeah. At least at least one isn’t it can help you any talked to Dave talk to Greg about this man in a great so obviously what Dave said I agreement on it Oh wow. That was very quick other options other simulations got coming from the assembly crowd you rub shoulders with people that are into dark matter of sorts and so you’ve got to be very very weary of whoever you communicating with right like all the different assembly communities some invariably your automation start talking about how to crack software we actually had a hook processes that on Windows machines and communicate that and there’s a legitimate reasons and purposes for that type of stuff. But it’s also great to black at all all the assembly communities that always went from greater back get shut down and when they shut down all those members dispersed to the other current Cindy groups and we’d always get an influx whenever that happened. But that come to our community committee with the same attitude of hacking and cracking and as I was saying none of that for us a about a long life longevity community we’re going to keep that that stuff private non public probably we’re going to say we’re trying to do things right yeah, so but yeah so again, I don’t know who was communicating with and then we’ll test it well I’m not gonna I’m not gonna shut my Scotty handle with in the electronic cash flow right that’s a rich attempted before hand been persecuted. And I wanted to decode to do a session My name I don’t want them to sit with Scotty and the show always cracking things and taking things and so far the point of it but clean we will help someone that would just doing some cracking cracking on with a blue yellow blue they have no things such as things are you mentioned my name was taken off? So we have none of that stuff. So again, I wasn’t going to have my Scotty Hill associated with this so funny communicate, I can’t use my Scott Scott’s off.com email which is what David I was communicating with the emails otherwise we’re on IRC and quick messages and so I said oh, I’ll get you may if it’s so important for Nokia people need to credit credit in anonymous email account and will communicate through that Yeah. And oddly enough the company has passed away when they didn’t they come back this is greed took what name you want to use as it what it is right you’re sending up right now give me a name right now. Well that was very abrupt and also your your time to actually think of a name was on it but now he wanted the name immediately within a second See I think I’m so not positive what name I used but from other informations come over the last two or three isn’t pretty shorts was based on what my middle name is James Yep. Alright so I think that Jamie Jamie gym or something like that I was most likely the one on used echoes Craig it doesn’t use the same Craig Yeah, which I only found out 2009 hit I had I hadn’t thought that to nine. But But later on, also turned 12 he found it was his real name. up into Lena. I was just made up name just like mine. Yeah, I could be uncle’s name or something. Yeah. If you can do a dot project your dumb ass to use your real name. That’s just that’s just Yeah. Okay. The only people even Dave himself said does it said even the like the academics cryptographers The only ones that use their real name is because the officially sanctioned little loud is there an academic source of the job? Right so you got things like JV p or ingredient that stuff like do as an occupational career that they’re involved in that environment anyway, either always communicate with online with the real persona, David was doing likewise. But he told me that was actually surprised even though I come from simply background that I was quite surprised Dave said that about 70 I percent of all the photographers in academic summaries are using anonymous handles when they want to dabble in it years that will be frowned upon by the academic opportunities. Right? Right what he was doing framed can be different type stuff so he could actually do a lot of stuff but now he actually said that know some of these other people know universities and they want to dabble in some interesting areas like outright cash other type of things. They cannot do it under the rule name because it doesn’t Google search for them and it gets back they’ll be off the market the next grad and be out in the year that went to dinner already breakouts we’re gonna be campaign so yeah, and it but I thought it might be 10 to 20% but he said it was like 70 80% that’s like a lot. A lot. Yeah. Hundred Thousand academia you think? Well, maybe all the assembly forms are filled with people. Yeah, a lot. Whether it’s true or Who does he see but he’s coming from somebody who is he because he would communicate them with the real name and the handles are so you said you started emailing each other through these new email accounts. Yeah, right. Yeah. And in our movements very very similar. But someone actually pulling out how totally wrong it’s one of the current one is cJ br.net.com was might which ring a bell because if you looked at my old strong soft.com site before structural component to the I was in tears on one it was using the host cJ be.net service right because one thing was was to use this with leaders on the other side of it just so that it was first glance if there’s a server that that’s the algorithm running to try and look for malicious or all type type emails it would might might be I am part of the algorithm is to dismiss hot metal CJ be awesome I always look for that in and so we use all that in one looking into the glasses are the brains of just an extra thing RC JP gets just a free license it was bored with it or not, I don’t know. So when I saw that RC JB how that’s the one we were using it at some point out No no, that was frustrated and like 2011 so it was similar but not exactly that one that we’re using right from the start Yep, I’ve already looked up the summing it up but I think that 2000 so that could be so my name is Peter spirit time I could go through each one find out which one was it created around April 2008. Yeah. So which one was created not initially stop the news because obviously I create recreate and you want to ask you JP and like to live in in to stop us the other one. So they just keep going and just spot at some stage but whatever want to create around creativity is what base case of them I’m sure could be like chance even like to save about April 2008 that will be the one that we would have used at the time. But um, yeah, so there’s always a second moment it will ludicrous because you might say well, it’s actually young, commercial type email accounts that are the ones will be ignored. And ones that look like hotmail or Gmail, what would be the one scrutinized? Yeah, so I did the exact opposite of what I showed done. Who knows? But these are the types of paranoia all freaked them Yep, done to carry it out right from the start. And this was only just so I can start communicating with them. Yeah. Hi. So then um, and then they so they already had the idea for Bitcoin is that and then they should explain it to you all have that no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m craving trying to create this case thing. Yeah. I was failing and and need help to try and get to work in it. That was not Bitcoin. Right? It wasn’t called Bitcoin first time I heard Bitcoin was was was in July. Right. So So yeah, there was there was no Bitcoin back then. What will happen is as right the stock that will divide the next email once we could talk to Greg said, Okay, well, good. Some information, which you’ve been studying this for so many years? I’ll tell me, you know, Dave told me, we can’t pass that along. as well. As you study this stuff, you know, what sites to go to get information? What sites got information about rubbish? If they can be what’s actually going to get information? Oh, study up on them and then also have regular documents in and look at the code and yeah, see, I see what needs to be tweaked, adjusted or anyone give it to me. So I’ll just go just go over some information. As you know, like you’re the one is saying that you’ve been studying this for all these years, should already have like, bookmarks links to the best information in Yeah, just give me the links. In the end, give me a link and the last one, and it’s one that’s got some like 1000 1500 General links of needles cryptography and stuff like a generalized one. I think not when he made up it’s just like if you google it’s a time for a crypto informational What is this? That’s one big big list all these these these these links, you go to the end up got another 200 or so it sounds huge metadata. Wow. There’s wasn’t concise at all, I think well, you see the bullshitting right from the very beginning and saying he hasn’t really studied it or he’s tried to study it but he hasn’t actually understood enough to actually reduce it to a concise few addresses you know, I started going through it that’s what they’re just ridiculous now we mentioned the on the big one artists are all of the did put that in but like john 17 the information about I found a website was very very similar to the one in the top of information it’s goes against what a lot of people have been saying the last few years that the Bitcoin the Bitcoin take the things like all hush, hush, hush hush, don’t even bring him back so that everyone knows about history as well this giant list that he was mostly information that people knew at the time, nothing at all. Nothing it’s only three other sites in other sites and other side and then you find mentioned about the history is and usually any mention of sky The three or four mentions about it, that you could possibly find it you find more mentions nowadays because Google’s made more connections between information over the time I will only for three or four mentions of his case each time they usually mention about how it’s useless and can be used for anything right? It actually had to be fixed before could be used so this idea of Bitcoin was a big winners his cash would modify with inflation controls on was rubbish, education stuff was junk. But if you want to work you can’t use the modifications that were built into bitcoin that you don’t try to take credit for things you didn’t do. That’s it That’s the style that conversation those right from the beginning was trying to suppress and hide and it was just a little check back and forth. Right And so the idea that they send you a white paper or did you guys start writing this together or wherever the white paper topic card I’m talking about is not Bitcoin so what you saw from August onwards and everyone woods in China does not what I’m talking about right now I’m talking about I’m talking about Christ failed teams right it’s not Bitcoin I remembered what reading some of the code you must have seen me some parts the white paper I just don’t recall he having that box like a PDF file let’s go to the pages and the top thing I don’t record this but I’m pretty sure they but mostly give me some snippets of information of how this will work in this at like like made a copy paste in the sections from a white paper and in saying this guy was moving more like that right right we’re having the full picture and so that can be a separate and they’ll go study about that oh yeah right and and learn about it and in the forest you know it’s doing it for about a month and a half each time was my manager Gregory and there’s not just normal business and mother half talking I was working for days on for days off inside a lot of time to think and to studying already so I was intense even half half night sleeps type thing so even in the night so if you have infected with eight nine hours sleep only have four hours sleep because the other half I was thinking about this writing stuff down or risk yeah so so so then she said that when So you said that then they wrote that they had that idea and then you guys will have and then he put the idea together or did you guys work up the new a new version or no no what happened is around mid May so about these will discuss this course was that you’re hoping that Craig went to prison he hasn’t actually come forward with information but it’s good another direction but that’s about it may I come to the conclusion that all the others had come to which is you can’t have an electronic cash like this is all of them are all the we have got serious problems with it long did this fight suffer suffer punk gum idea of actually having your own global currency That’s impossible. Because it was some sort of double spending problem you’re always needed a centralized server to the time stamping so you can say this coin was in at this time this closely at this time was not even that you most of the cases you’re actually bye bye send a request to the central server token away it’ll look at it and give you back the news and you see Nick token to the other person and when that person wants to send it somewhere else stating that token to the central central server confirms it yep yep that was it was correct as a real taken and it personally it seems there isn’t there isn’t really owns that inside it Yeah, yeah. Okay, here’s a new token and then that person can see this is what most the systems where will the way through and and it’s just like Craig wants and he can’t do it with a central server as well my experience and assembly groups and arrest for one of the biggest simple social manipulate social engineering when your phone someone up now at hotmail and go into my ankles just been run over and on his toes account and then getting access that way. Someone’s like getting your your people’s phone numbers on a new sim at at amp T and in the US which works session. Apart from this. Yeah, the biggest threat to any computer systems, other people there to be paid to look up. Right, there’s a big elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about as such, like the system administrator access to all your passwords, right? Remember it’s only the last decade older people will be saying oh, we should be standard saving the past we should be sending this the hash of the password so we can confirm that the person entering the password is correct because the history of it matches so we know that into the correct password so we can access but we don’t know what the password is itself so we can just type something in and say that even large companies right now not doing that someone was still saving passwords and I really had to get a password reset or whatever or request and you get an email with your your password in plain text that are all the mail servers. Everyone there knows what your password is no security on big companies. So some ministries is the software developers themselves in the 90s was at uni part time job was an industrial cleaner, you know just like cleaning up movie theater. Thomas an author got the called CSIR government coming research facility we got but uh he called mainland but it’s it’s soft, it’s safe, and the refrigerator but it comes out. And it spread out from the refrigerator tipping solid. And it was in the air that they were active the machines to actually go through all the iterations to figure out how to pull up that that sort of the milk Norris and stood up in recombine it to make it so he invented it. But it was on the contract from the mainland company. But so anyway, so when I was cleaning out and I had my screen savers off your Star Trek Was this the best theme of screenshots I’m saying some of them had no, I was anything. Any any cleaner in any industrial cleaner, can just walk in here. Grab a hard rock dust Michael screwed up, I got the case, take a hot dog sit the settings set from from master slave plugging into their own computer, and they got access to us. And most of the got access to all the data isn’t it isn’t just your cleaner. Right? And so people don’t want to admit that, that when they give the keys over to these cleaners. They’ve got access to these all that stuff? Yeah. Yeah. So you know, any electronic cash has to be protected. If the stuff I had to go to one computer server. Yeah. Or you someone has to get a job and additional cleaner at the building that that is these centralized times he was already Yeah. And they can do anything they want. Right. So So basically, it’d be designed so that you know, even icon heck of it. All people from the community. so obvious, average, I was moderating the app. But also, there’s some people that are off the charts. So I’m not smart. Really. We’re going to go ahead a big people like that. Otherwise, there is no system. Yeah, right. Yeah, and the only way didn’t design system that is if you actually deal with that you’re in the first place, which people like Craig did. Anyway, yeah. So these systems with with a centralized services never going to work and and a lot of good discussions off. Well, how do you solve it all will spread out over like 676 servers? across the whole planet? Yeah. So there’s a local person here might be able to go in and my grandmother, but not the other one. The other one the other one? Yeah. That’ll work on it. Well, no, it’s just gonna be more organized. Right. Now if you’re going to be Yeah, I think it’s called organized crime for a reason it’s organized. course it’s across the planet out across the countries and yeah, right. That is going to be informed. Right? production consultants. Yeah. Yeah, and send them out which way to try and manipulate it, it still comes down to not because you still got a ministries and the company got board members in charge of the whole company. So if it’s different companies and charge, but then again, country companies and get on well, you got like Microsoft gets f1 arrest and also any kind of those people in charge of something that’s go with everyone for so always put the owns it system first before anyone else. Any any contract with everyone, you know, in one, when you want to work together, it’s all hunky dory and all fine. But as soon as you should still want to you want to part ways? Well, that’s where the contracts most important, most important parts of the contract out when you’re breaking apart? And what happens with payments, the IP, and what about notes, you’re going to give them more important than anything else. So if you really want to work on a project together, you don’t even need a contract. You just do it. Right context of the when you want to break it when it’s time to break up. Yeah, it’s is Microsoft and Apple and now the country companies are involved in these. These Thompson service, or some sites are going to break up. It was inevitable. What’s going to happen to our money? Yeah, right. It’s just all that all that didn’t come solve it. And there’s 100,000 academics and cryptographers, or the million years of experience saying not possible, and yeah, they’re actually correct. To create saucy bomb off the project help you? And then go PCA route. Right? Especially correct. And also you want to help us figure out how to get it working. I said, No, I’ll sit down make the attempt at Yeah, that’s I’m off account because this this this is the only will never work. Are you going to solve in such a way that the the double spending problem happens in a decentralized manner? And it’s impossible? all the all the ways that this this template for him? It’s always rely on a server. Right? just not possible, right. Yeah. And so from that point, from my perspective, that was enough of Craig’s project for those go no weirdness. This is junk Look, a little wrist. Right. Yeah, and that was into that. Right? But for the next two weeks, I was reminiscing of the stuff I used to do in the winter to simply community this is this is what right still early mid 2008 I haven’t done much in the committee for about two years so no longer motor I think because of what happened in 2005 2006 i got i got the ships with them and said well I’m not gonna I’m not gonna put all my effort into doing something just to have people just take it away right and which was noise we will correct behavior and Bitcoin at the moment what was happening in two and five times six what was someone was wanting to make a tank game online 10 game top they got a 10 game and I permit them to make it like a multiplayer first game before hand with single first and then the chicken multiplayer and was just rubbish Yeah, when he was really great multiplayer right did it first and it was about two three multi threads in the winter to similarly community because I was involved in the gaming in pro graphics programming. And it was one or two huge threads where it went through piece of our best to try and figure out how to get tech tank wheels on the ground in the spinning around in the tank tracks like touch the ground and just the wheels and move and get animate and all this other stuff in ever train and what falls off raise onto the ground to get the height and dividing adjusted but every huge and because most of the ones at the time were just rubbish I would think games are held things moved on the grounds of the rubbish food oh well it’s fantastic. I got in the guy goes program it out I think it was using boy c++ and C or c++ different flavor and different libraries and stuff. That time I was trying to get working in and getting people from around the world to actually join up and move it around and stuff we had things like like like the train was so so chunky so it was like this here and they can go there and get stuck because that’ll be probably the only appointed on the end and just wouldn’t move it was solved that conversation that was good enough with demo top thing and he was screwed over and hit that stolen the people who took it in up seeing threatening emails or on the internet we ever he was discussing it like all the c++ or gaming former that even send it to the revenue from Digital assembly at the time. I time basically, to remove it. So to remove us with all that information. But it is about this later talk to you that threaten the leader. Is it? Yeah, yeah, this is a lot lower but for IP that people have taken it. And so for IP reasons, go take acid and that that thread proof, it’s actually my IP that they might have screwed the other guy over but the cat take that IP architect it and make note taking Yeah, this is what I’m doing. I said well, even if the legal threat. So what its gonna be thrown out? No, it wasn’t a legal three was a physical three. So that was the end of that. So yeah, from that point on that was like five or six childhood St. John’s through till this even every few weeks I google that guy’s name, his name yet and they can’t go. And it was the least the least result coming from Google at all, by the end of two young six really needed a Midtown seven, there was no more results. So that gone, that Google or any waivers document they’ve gone to places texting on getting Google to remove this information that this idea of Google some is staying back in and just absorbs all this information. It’s there forever. That’s not true at all. With the right threat to the right people dies removed from Google. So by the end of the day, on seven hours, welcome to email with the winter to assembly community. I feel like if I’m just being totally screwed over. So I was looking for something else. That’s one of the reasons why I was like given area, what the community in the community doing to see if it was gonna do anything with electronic cash or something until eight you know what question we only know, jump back. No, no, I think you’re right. I think I think and and then I guess you know that that you said that that issue? Or that version wasn’t going to work? And they are you standing up a new version. And then I am your host of reminiscing about stuff I was doing this. Not just about reminisce about all the other. I’m going to take something since been a half a day kind of thing. I was looking at singing because you’re loose. I imagine if you don’t use it, you lose it inside look. Deep Dive in something lunette, grab these out, make it work, and they’re going to something and then ruin it deep dive, pull a business, make it work and move on to something else. Yep, totally gone two or three sips. I’ve already started getting about all this stuff. Always was reusing it. Yeah. My brain just just like not not to keep it in there. Yeah, so So yeah, I was reminiscing about some of the stuff I was looking at a thing. This guy must a really nice stuff to be able to do this and do that. Because it’s the stuff that I’ve written. Yeah, I found some some is the logs from talking to someone. I think by the guys handle, some of that was using either either Palestine or Israel, one of them. And I was it was asking questions about how to embed DLL the document link libraries into an app and have them dominate linked was still in the executable and run. And I said, Well, the main main way is you can just use it as a resource when they run the program at writes the DLL to the fall, and then it links as well as he doesn’t want and then you’re gonna have to link that afterwards. So nobody knows that cover you. Yeah. Why doesn’t want even want that to be written down to the hard drive? So it’s a huge discussion of whether you can do that and awesome. Yeah, I’ll do it. I’ll sing mom also non something beginning. But that being done now, not at all, at all. Three of those stuff for two weeks and thinking, Okay, in five years time, but definitely going to have a planetary civilization. It’s obvious. Yeah, yeah. Nice science fiction movies for that, you know, we’re hidden away. Just a matter of when it’s going to happen. Okay, so so for the people living in 500 years. The we’re born the born into a planetary civilization, the universe, as far as I can see, consists of a plan. I’ll planetary civilization. Yeah. Okay. Okay, what about the generation before him? And the generation before it at some stage, someone would be born and they weren’t. And there’s a planetary civilization, and they end up being inside. So when did that occur? that there have been 400 use on Yeah. So up until next 400 years, it’s just a mess that we’ve got right now. And those living after four hundred years, the first generation to use this idea of we’re all one people. And but the invalid century is just normal, just like we expect vehicles and computers are. Bobby will be one last couple of decades. Computers are just there. They’ve always existed in universe, how could they not exist? several cars, right. And the aircraft? Well, the transactions in there’s always been a planetary civilization when you’re talking about how it will work beforehand, although it didn’t work beforehand. Right. Okay. was a 40 years, maybe 300 years, 200 years, sometime between now we’re not living a planetary civilization, we will get there. I think well should work way back maybe was in this century, maybe in the next 50 years. That’s in our lifetimes. One of the catalysts was happening right this moment. All the changes happening. One of the changes that something’s happening right now that in the future, who say, Oh, well, if you look at that, and look at that, look at that was obviously going to happen? Well, not listening from that perspective. Nothing forward to looking forward. You don’t see that and you don’t see that. Yeah. Good. not obvious at all. It’s only when it something magical happened right here that will travel together an awesome. exploded. Yep. Right. Okay, well, maybe that’s going to happen now as well. What was the catalyst going to be under who’s going to do it? Because it’s gonna be someone’s name, when we someone over the statute with the name saying like, this is the start of it, or the main point of it? Right? It’s using its wide river. Whose is it a statue off? Whatever person? Yeah, analyze. I don’t think well, why not? Me? Yeah. It’s pretty damn American, say 100,000 academics and cryptographers with a million years experience? And you say, well, maybe I could do it. And Goggin, some right, as they have a lot of arrogance and ego. But that’s what’s needed to push forward. Otherwise, you’d side Well, I’m just say how clearly it’s impossible. You’ve got these people that got 40 years experience, and it was about 20 years experience of God got all these books, Norris, either the top of the line through this in a panel of the top people, these people, and are all saying it’s not work for this reason. That reason? So yeah. So it’s another thing to do is that then what led you to go back and start, you know, coming up with this new solution? or How did it what happened after that? Oh, well, how did you get back involved? But we’re not moving back and forth. Because there’s no going back to Craig and Dave with a broken ideas and systems and ways of thinking. So, come now, because I found the book, I’m not round about the first week of June, right? Because the book itself has got a timestamp of like it was a sticker on it, and it’s got a date on it. So desktop, and it’s the light, light light, may 2008. And obviously, I must have would have after that date efforts for sale, which means would have been about gone within a week or so. So about half a week before project kicked off. bought the book. So which means about the first week of June is when the project kicked off. And I thought well, well, okay, so I want to give it a go anyway. All right. If you if you’re trying but reach the stars, you might have to move your mouse, right, that’s worth the team, even if it’s if you completely fail, and you should fell many a million years of experience saying go File. It’s worth the journey anyway, to make the team. Yeah. Right. And if no one’s going to succeed, anything to go to make the attempt anyway. Yeah, right. It’s not gonna happen, if not next year. So it’s gotta be something that’s they’re going to get the norms of society and everything else. So I thought I’ll take a look. I’ll try and see if there’s a positive way of solving this issue. Now, going right from the start. You can see what the other approaches are done. And then well, they did it this way and failed. So won’t do it that way. They did. This went out, I went that way. They did this right, this little bit more of it, but the other bit file, so you can look at my projects. People say, Yeah, you’re on the years down the shoulders of what came before. Not really. Because what you’re really doing is not staying the shoulders of people who failed, right? At least an element of that would actually prop you up. But if they did this way and failed, you don’t want to be on the shoulders. Know, you want to stay on your anger. And it’s like people say, Oh, he’s gonna be like gum. The next Edison or the next to slow the next Steve Jobs was an arrogance. White you think now won’t be that’d be the first you? Because it’s why we don’t want to have more leeway of what you can do. Yeah. Right. Because be the next Steve Jobs. That means you’re just an inverted pendulum of technology in design and user interfaces, right? that restricts of what you can do feel the first you and make it so that you will in the future go. Okay. Got to be this next. Wilson who is currently waiver? And so yeah, the idea is you read this information and and and basically get to start from the very beginning, right, and then re study other people’s stuff based upon what came up. So you may start with, okay, what is actually a transaction that we’re able to do something it’s always based on assumptions. Totally. Most common, everyone agrees that the sky is blue. Right? So everyone’s agrees The sky is blue. How do you say it’s something else? Right. But then you go and took a look at them yellow on a TV string, there’s no yellow pixel there. So if you see yellow on a TV screen your brain is creating an illusion inside your skull will get different radio frequencies and change the color yellow. Yellow is not being admitted it’ll all right, so number 100,000 other people say you can’t do something years without giving try and I thought well I’m going to need to communicate with people that know crypto algorithms or like so there’s the idea is not to roll your own you know make your own top of encryption and and use that use what is the industry standard that have had 100,000 people analyze and pieces right? Not only that not just the algorithm like the shower wine or shout if I was x rays or Indy five the libraries What’s also important is the largest you use this one the assembly daily life is not the same thing. Right You might have something that says Indy five here in Indy 500 different libraries coded differently these actually addiction problem with us here and this one’s fine so you actually learn that I’ll take it once I use that one because there won’t be able to inject code and Jordan Horace and but but for the own stuff that use the library you need to use the library set the heck is the crackers use it for the software? Not for the software that they hit? Gotcha right. And and so it says yes or no not libraries are not all equal in it. It definitely they’re not rolling and you’re going to choose which library neck but it’s good to know communicate with people saying oh well the libraries of these that library from these people that library from these people are becoming people you get take the information go with those libraries use us for that piece of software that person software this business if we go to the heck Ingrid and stuff so as you know what the heck this group board these people will this company yeah yeah okay why don’t use that library all useless up you know that type of stuff gotcha that’s don’t need to communicate data and information well who you like communicate within it because you’ve you’ll see on the news that group saying RFC I think people take names coming up over and over anything can communicate with him they’ll get information because in a community say is random numbers I say you got 10,000 people or community it’s just 10,000 pneumonia Thea thousand people that look on the floor you are now in the in 100 bucks do comics and stuff like that every now and then and it and are actually actively producing for that community? Yeah, things like that. Inside the ones that are producing content when he talks about stuff and analyze itself and posting it on using it an IRC or mailing lists that the ones you want to communicate with Yeah, it won’t it totally disregard is just just waste especially the ones are actually actively producing not even the ones actually talking about consumption silent that it’s more like gum customers customer support you want the ones that are actually producing and there’s a few like dancing Ok, I can communicate with these people these people these people and I thought some more I still want to do this with protection protect as much as possible and these other guys they actually created this anonymous email account for us to communicate in our our people were talking and discussing other is that person someone that will actually if I asked him what he got Scott white and generate a new email account for you can make it a secret they’re not double dip but I went through all the active players at the time and I come to conclusion that this is one of the traits that Craig’s got that nobody else on the planet has ever never met before what’s up which is he would actually go and create an anonymous email account for us to communicate all right, nobody will know I saw asked me to go do it that is that frame of mind that’s different right? He’s got his reasons for that but he’s got a mind is different from all those others and I thought well it’d be more idea of we have I keep the communication up but I went through these guys if I can, David and Craig to keep on board and communicate volume Yeah, so I can keep the secret communication of the email but still communicate with those people there and the active in the community by basically asking Daniel Craig to to ask them this question. Hit the reply. Give it to me. Right gotcha. It’s got a barrier barrier protection the I’ve got this guy that’s got a different note brain than anyone else that he’s got Dr. Which is really important. You don’t have to be brilliant if you got Dr. Dr. can make up for brilliance. Like the guy Thomas Edison, whatever, right? He wasn’t very smart my last patrons but because he had the drive to drive other people to do the work or the light bulb light bulbs existed even things that need reliable in whiteboards existed he just improved upon it to make it commercially viable and up in Alaska, but he didn’t do it he employed other people to do so here’s the way it was smart enough to get them to focus on it. So then use you involve Dave and create to do the communication I think you said that the other other day as well. And then so then did you start to you said you needed some decentralized way did you start to then write some code or how did you begin know all the words what I did during the winter day to assembly days right? A lot of people ask a question try and build up a community someone asked a question of how to do this and wanted to assembly that will in wouldn’t just one city to look at windows 95 when there’s no a Windows experience that may want it time of how to use this dynamic librarians and I’d be curious of course I was in this area I didn’t know all this other stuff yeah agreed and wait for the answer and why the data to and no answer I’ll I’ll go and research myself figure it out like a little thing I call it probably probably that are like small bottle small program it does one Zak an instructional example of one specific thing I for instance, or probably might be on the toolbar and the toolbar at the top that Scott do open and save and basically other other tools of how do you actually create one correct Legos put it up the icons and have it displayed and stuff and then later on rubber come along we can actually grab that toolbar and actually put up any way you want and how and rearrange them that was and I thought well this is a program that just as that can use them you click on it you know say it’s now been has been pushed didn’t do anything you set that example of how to use it so I can progress even real programs Yeah, I don’t think I’m the only one in coordinate sounds silly out loud but when I type it you know it’s like yeah, I learned a small example and I’ll explain it to them and I’ll just give the the zip Yeah, they’re all gone now because it was me archive but yeah and so I made all these various send on learning about so I learned about Woodstock I learned about IRC the diocese a request for comment for IRC you know and we had like a little program at the connection I’m used to communicate and keep alive the connection nothing else but that’s that but the RFC for all the commands and put them in through your nose and we can create channels and change channels which was useful for becomes fish releases something similar to for people to learn who’s who conducted the nose to connecting was that is ever IRC channel and when you load up what you those you can check that specific IRC channel you’re putting your IP and you read the list of who else is IP zero and then you can keep those notes right right but the original cut him before that was based upon the wind the wind soccer program which is very recruit very basic just keep alive when do the winds look at stuff or is he for the Bitcoin itself thought well this read the RFC documents more thoroughly Let’s read and what other executive authority so that it’s coated more correct Yeah. So one of the things a lot better now it’s gone now I think they switched it to after a few years Once there was a few notes at the other appeared to me is like almost permanent. Well we don’t need IRC channel anymore we just have to put those seeding ones and so that’s what the Queen does narrow just so say three or four that they’re currently the and asked him what most Do you know about grabs them and kick some butt I still think it would be better because the whole point of it is no one’s in control of it. At the moment people are in control of the seeds of those core nodes Emily’s a problem the community life is going to break into like a well we can’t use a seed notes anymore with a change I would be seeing a BBC BBC Asian be nice but damn into So you said you started coding these little properties of the elements you but the very first thing was was was what’s the transaction and you think okay a transaction is transferring something for me to someone What does that mean? I get as far as it as it financial? Is it any digital image be the equivalent of a transaction? What does it mean by transacting with somebody not usually financial might be like bartering anything right mean it’s one way I think most contract laws when it comes to something transferring transcripts there’s got to be reciprocal so it’s gonna be a two way is hardly anything and law that allows a one way transaction even use get people here that are on a pastor some this company over to this space of why you can just give it to them so they all give it to you for $1 because it gives him $1 companies yours now I have to get our lighting up I don’t pay any taxes or three days away relates because somebody else’s company now laws of broaden it out that’s got to be valued and so you know you pay the value and yeah yeah that’s it even breaking down Okay, so if I give you a transaction say at a Dario Dario corner shop you bought a product and psychology you know a $10 note and you get the product so it’s with $5 and and $5 change all those have been directions or you’re biting laws in your thinking you got $10 or you’re buying something that’s worth $10 and you’ve got to five so all these different types of interactions and think okay, this is what a transaction is trauma the code of a structure that holds all these different values and so flat crudely first to find out all different ways at one stage the idea was to have an address for for the equivalent of one coin two coins five coins a quarter 20% plus $59 $5 you know the equivalent right so you have your own pace of say when you generate a wallet or send you that it comes from didn’t happen but in the mid 90s again just for going to uni which are you know the industry plenty but before I was got a taxi license since I was driving and texting and of course you hit the float right Right. Right What what made mine which is why the members are still stay strong for these it was because every single taxi cab and the planet are automatic critical right? except the one I drove I drove as well just to drive that was a manual manual but in early 90s using government D deregulated the taxi industry so like taxi license server with like quarter of a million or once worthless overnight great influx of new taxi companies and I was working as a draft for one of them and and of course had manual and for dispatch instead of having a dispatch office that took calls inside the like a CB radio and all the cars and many of the others didn’t like my excellence atrocious now but back then it was pretty good. It says my accent was clear I was ready to anyone else I got the job of being dispatched and so I had to keep them in mind we’re all the cars are we there been this weird or were they just dropped off a backdrop of the location that location comes through we’re going to listen know talk to talk to this and write down the details Yeah, I have the address and then dispatch someone because myself or someone else to we was local closest to that spot type thing or someone’s already got a trip out to that location well clearly the muzzle bring the person back that the other drawback but also driving the taxi so I might be a rank and and one of the patients are coming that telling me the address I’m running the race course coming through I’m talking that getting the dress trying to picture we’re always going to go you’re not going to put into first gear clutch Chris get putting it on Kindle get pulled out right another note that I just mentioned so my hands wash my hands but Holly on the steering wheel whatsoever and with three juice it’s a license stuff while the while the passengers to tell me where he wants to go and and and chatting but also as a community of these people and yeah, you’re changing gears at every stage so um yeah, like the float the idea that well was the idea was if he had the dress for everyone it’s coins and the notes so that when you know what that’s what your head and so whenever you want to receive coin Yeah, that’s it basically gives you basically it’s like hanging over your flight away and someone just says I’ll give you $2 in a coin there and at 20 Cynthia ne ne Thank you very much. Right It’s all just pulled up pose a problem when you go to buy something it gets sick the same prices if you’re going your wallet officially got 50 coins quarters, teens fives, you spit them out and you buy the thing that’s what you’d be paying them No no, so you don’t even need something like about 2020 addresses for all denominations you’ll never need and it said it was only later on people point out that but if you’re reusing address that that gives a teachable someone to work out the random number generator used for the private key insights about ideas better idea to actually recreate a new address every time I think that’s actually mentioned the form somewhere about about or in the emails or something about how how if you want extra privacy generate a new dress every time right that’s an added security feature wasn’t actually part of Bitcoin Yeah, I think I’ll just visit some city and transferring yep right idea of now of always having a new address that’s that’s not actually Bitcoin that’s an additional thing. But yeah, so I was can you go these people going through the process of what’s the transaction Hello break it down and I communicate with them with other people gotcha. But to get them on board right so let’s see project kicked off on June 2008. This idea of off working on it for two years type thing where they just a the background story of this character in the actors would understand that you need some some background story lot and someone’s reality so it makes it easier to give it out. Yet, so I said to try and get by and by anybody that bought from the assembly stuff, even in 2008 I’ve got books on neuro linguistic programming or studying Myers Briggs up box off with us analyze the crap out of all the different personality types and how to make a website so that the people we know reading a website that they ignore stuff they don’t the brain does not agree with and I’ll lock and onto the phrases that hooks them in and it is different personality types then different people be hooked by the phrases different kitchens some people like kitties and donkeys and stuff other people like that monetary were so if you got the blue one paragraph to him up your pit love that top thing on an old ones as much reward you have holidays and you’re not shiny cow you know, it’ll hit two builders nor nor there we go. Yeah, makes it right. And so to get by and also the idea is I think I mentioned before this recording said about you, you get someone to do a favor for you. Right and I know the movies you never asked click paper bag This is not the point of the ideas that buy in so that in their brain the same Oh, he has me since I did a favor for him. He owes me a favor that means now right? But it’s from the brain it’s not yours at all. So they get buy in from Craig I thought well Oh, I’ll get them to go the startup they’re really not they’re really not that that just a week or two weeks earlier I said well, it’s never gonna work. It’s rubbish is what you’re doing. I’m out of here and then two weeks later here’s what I’m saying. I’m going to give it a try my mind project I want you guys help me so they were really annoyed I said if I don’t succeed it’s just like before and he runs a great it’s not gonna succeed if I managed to figure out some of the things yeah, you still may be able to use it for an electronic cash for the gambling industry. Right and you would have had done anything except for nutrients for a bit of information back and forth questions back and forth right there’s that was still working on Craigs broken all thing right. So get by and I thought well, I got a name project and things like Windows Vista was Longhorn was someone that they want and what what was expected Whistler or and Whistler was one of them and then the Longhorn was another as I explained in Millenium and witnessed 2000 and or south of well so you’re going to have a hidden private project name project and so we’ve got come up and see us come up with a project name he’s and Craig ministry all should be something like Greek you what we’re gonna do a project notes can be great or something yeah, I thought I saw it as I said audience and say there was just a week or so ago it was the last Thursday was I just got a great way to reform the like a bookstore and and you kidding me on tonight and I said I said well why does not read it through it and I’ll type it up and get him to actually discuss what it is and make us law law law list of what names we could call it right and and I was typing out when we’re discussing their time and then discussing after an hour and a half of these these entrepreneurial books must be wrong. The idea is to scale by using other people’s time other people skills other people’s money and here I’m using my time I’m using more time I have a quick already had a quick photo for me is is is obviously the only choice you can if there is no other choice really. I’m just going through the motions here and I’m putting a lot of typing effort to this other so clearly something’s wrong I’m doing it wrong or something but in the afternoon you’re half asleep right? Well met at list probably has come up twice or whatever, which one we’re going to do and trace permissiveness so got the buy in of him saying is promiscuous right right. So that helped a bit a little bit not so much because the next month they Holly did anything I asked the question that go away in a few hours later might come back there’s hardly any communication at all for next month so it’s it’s mid June yes early June to July for about a month hard yet they’re not just trying to figure out all these different solutions as well they’re from everywhere. I was going through all my own notes and ideas from from 130 to 60 days or what was the books at the time I said you do things like right any topic or anything like like what I even posted Twitter the other day about how about the same time I read this book about power generation of like most people do now anyway like drill a hole down to where it’s really hot Nicole and all these very watered down there heats up in the steam steam rising he seemed to been talking this will physics involved in it than just that but just the general idea of well if you can find a heat source and throw water on it and in general pattern apart from the manufacturer of the equipment and the maintenance costs that’s ongoing no power Jackson when you Zealand hundred chickens or even title you know there’s some places on earth with the tides a huge I’m meeting the meeting until just a couple of meters huge so you can actually hear from title generators actually in the in the in the water it’s definitely one of the sky books I was reading at the time actually mention about off Sunday what era but offsetting it near the first race they’re just outside I just outside Sydney Harbour there was actually a giant title dams up and down the coast nine in the sky book, I think well, that’s actually could be where we’re hitting. What you need a way is is the is not the design of them. It’s the manufacturer and the maintenance. And if we’re going to a place where we’ve got robots doing pretty much everything from digging the raw material the ground and take it to the smell that I could get it into the base of Oregon and yeah, and then fabrication, arrest and transportation. And we could actually make these things very, very cheap overnight in Fayette County system because they don’t screw up on Yeah, but we could actually have these things. And not only that, if we build enough machines that do this, they can just carry on just doing some session when we start to Cynthia Stein what 50 years time or 20 years time we’ll have these john title generators up and down the coast and unlimited power and every single song for sure. But we got unlimited power they’re all you techies to the extent of when it comes to the daily struggles on gone. You don’t have to think about food anymore. Yeah, we don’t have to think about clothing or we’re we’re going to sleep board and all this other stuff that’s gone no longer exists. I there’s a lot of like, basically will utopia right. And for that we need for as long as you’re willing get there is still need something to strive for it. And then action. Right. So I think it’s like God, I tell you presence in robotics and AI is going to be a big club. But before you do all that you need a global currency. Yeah. And pay for this because it’s not gonna happen just outside the heads of Sydney here is to be there on every single country continent on the planet simultaneously. Because if you’re looking at the planet as a planetary civilization, these robots that will be building these past actions. They’re basically unlimited. Yeah, that’s almost perpetual, in the sense of the sons and the moon on a boat with the moon itself. It was actually during summer of the moon is the way I will just keep going. Yeah, right. Good need a global currency. So this will be painful and done. Right? We could use all the maintenance technicians for the robots in fuel sources and whatever else until it’s up and running. Yeah, but the idea is to do this similar tenuously across the entire planet. That’s never happened before. Because he wants a nationalist and patriotic thinking that well, it’s like a wave a flag, but you shouldn’t be moving the boy over. And people so don’t take the stick when it comes to state governments. They forget that state sanctioned murder is murder. So if it’s bad for me to murder someone bed for the gut steak dinner, self defense is one thing. Babylon is these countries and people that are actually going to their neighbors and killing themselves not killing themselves are they going to neighbors and the neighboring villages enabling the state or not even the neighbors say half an hour the world and I volunteer at a distance something for the for the advancement of technology, that’s good. Because human being is one of the great thing that the greatest tool users have existed but one of the great things we can do there been any other creature is they have a project volunteer at a distance. And if you look through human history, the more advanced civilizations groups are the ones that could project fans Phil and so you’re sharing a missile hopper and the plant in making a million people that is this is it right it’s very advanced shame the brains behind the button that I think can be for and against the same time but yeah, yeah sorry I got bind with some but David and Craig again to ask question and stuff are all just monitor transactions can do it this way or that way into what it is whoever they’re communicating with should so this is June ish donate some of them out there should have actually receive questions asked very, very simple basic questions on just plain was a transaction was a digital assets in your breakout breakout like this? Yeah. How would you be able to set a digital asset here, whether it’s money or whether it’s a digital photo or anything, no, inhibit reciprocate, reciprocate, it’s a senior quarterback might be a repository so that so that there’s that one of the other ideas with with being a lot this data and not being at changeable comes from the Old World War Two, when when you hit nations going through other nations, he just joined us dealing goods taking property, you Norris, when all the dust settle outwards, and things changed. A lot of people that owned the spittle land on this bill, and they never got it back. And live it got didn’t get back because these state governments on both sides just had records disappear. You my story about about boats and cars, and they’re being taken from Europe and transported by to offer us offices back to the US. It’s based. Right, but they were looking at the Western Europe as well, right? The prisoners of war type thing, you know, we take stuff just like the done the Middle Ages is crazy. I thought well, okay, one way to fix that situation, state governments have proven themselves not to be trustworthy. All of them have, as far as I’m aware. So it’s basically going to a planetary civilization, you don’t want those people in charge. All these are the types of people that will actually go to a course on political science so that they can go through the ranks of a party and then take control of the company, like the country and have laws made up and was other stuff. Well, if you’re going to go into a political science course that might should actually will go out from actually ruling, right. This is the wrong concept. minds if you want to have a planet if you want to keep doing things the way they are, it’s ideal, if you want to hit was a planetary civilization. You’re not learning that in political science. You’re learning nationalism and statism and political songs. Right right. So again, this is what you were asked us of the the opposite, and you might actually get where we want to go. So um, yeah, sorry for a planetary civilization. It’s Yeah, we’re gonna go What if I ask me these questions? I think I think I think Bill you were talking about like so you were making these programs and you were sharing them back and forth with Dave and Craig and then on the for this fall structure with its work and exchange information on this and then you were talking to your email and then I think eventually Someone must have written you know, who wrote the Bitcoin white paper but you can’t catch so this words backwards compared to what’s even come before usually people turn to watch paper and then they go well, let’s see can you help me john and build this thing right or read a bit of will get an example about his the golden years later right. The signal to the question was was he is based upon the money and the goal is it’s not because those are just talking documents. They never existed bit money money and never existed that golden is never existed. even accept it seems like oh, here’s the thing you would like to help me code or something. So he didn’t even know it’s gonna work. So after coding it I had to know which are so I’m just just against bag like anyone else anyone can set all the gaming industry right now because he seemed like I was involved in the games and graphics right? Yeah, I might look checking game nothing that was commercial. Like it was I always go into the game development sites in it and one’s always always get people going to say about this idea for this game. This is like this game and elements of this game, but this is my idea. It don’t steal it. Okay, whereas all I need some help coding but that’s this is my idea and the idea is there’s 95% August you have profits Do you want to know this is all bullshit as it is so the idea of saying or this thing could be like this or like this means nothing if you cannot execute million ideas, the one that gets executed as the one that’s going to be succeeding and I’m not gonna waste my time just repeating what other people don’t own my short works is it is to actually practice okay at this communicates what happens if this go see right here you see we got here you communicating and they see this data at this time the same the status which one would it be the correct one makes sense? So you want to make it first and then thought about it at least the core elements of it enemy but if you if you read the white paper and then take a look at the Bitcoin client what he does the leg very very different very very different. I mean, you almost think that was not really like the same thing at all. Yeah, I mean, this is this elements that are similar you know, the simple payment verification thing is not even white paper is not up to date. And Sunday just stand exists now from other people. Right. And and and so with the with the so that when you said the so we wrote the code first and then you’re sharing this with Craig and Dave and then who wrote the so who actually wrote the white pepper at the end of the day, like how did that come about? I think a lot of stuff comes down to people’s perspective all the definitions of what that may mean. What do you mean by Satoshi that Komodo and and always and this case when you have when you say right the white paper I guess the draft or people might think just like others have done that go top down and they’re like you have a few ideas now write it down in the day there’s more white paper Alright, that’s not what happened at all it’s good to have this bit of this but we had to split this week and this week and this week’s I will put this in there and and a lot of it is is once once we figured out how this would actually jump together and then the big breakthrough was the proof of work system. Yeah, right. It was like almost like a golden nugget throttling. Yeah, without it like it was before when I was everything I looked at almost every case there was a failure is something that could never work because of how they were you thinking of using it Yeah, but if you will use it in this different way not quite like cash cash because it needed to have difficulty difficulty adjusted dynamically education and got that that’s what the failure right it’s that might be okay for the casual email type spam top thing much as designed for but for digital currency you need to be more dynamic and adjustable right um but yeah so so once gone through that system and even through all the prizes off I gave of this activity this out of the others risks so going through some the game three ideas of this person but perceive this person was doing something Yep. How would they erect they perceive the specimen doing something and they weren’t doing it? Yep. How would it and how the whole system works so that no matter how the actors good or bad played the game right the system was to continue makes it right so we actor agnostic okay which also means you can scale up to a state where you’re Russian American and trying to do these things and manipulations happen during a muck around with nose and trying to civil war techie Jones away it’s going to be able to work with him to scale up to that level First they just jumping straight away there’s obliterated by kind of put them all put all the pieces together together yeah and so once at of all these little pieces getting these are the ones that get a good like this order then explaining that to to Dave and Craig think think think doesn’t work so well. We’ll get started like to various because my brain might be deceiving me in and how it’s working on with it always works but they might see something obvious on the side that I just my brain just an input so yeah, you need it back and forth. Alright, so that they can have a conversation started that’s cool and they didn’t understand it at all because I don’t from eating them before this idea for staying on what’s come before that and people pick up on it’s like this is like this. Yeah, we didn’t have that we didn’t have there and this was very different from what evenings gone before. We’ve chosen some elements of what’s in the past. Just so that the onboarding by those people you know, your your onboarding is someone might have onboarding is using familiar familiarity is what the first yes still recording we still read this is what happens when you’re paying bt senior going to delay when the payment they pay with Bitcoin cash the lights will stay on Yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. That might be interesting. I can’t talk seriously about that so so so ludicrous. I guess talk about the idea is that he he published something saying look at what I wrote in 2001 and then never looked at Sunday Wikileaks James just I just came in today and I did it when when when Craig polish it that publish it nonsense about back new metric everyone would hit the streets because it was very very obvious to even people of average intelligence to see was faked it canes it is from the published become white paper not from the draft white papers This is actually forgot that we was issued draft version that everyone knows about. And so he faked he adjusted the published one or the one that was published in November to make it look like it was a black Nick one think weighing on all you’ve done is modified it’s clearly fraudulent behavior because he’s already getting monitoring reward for this that means it’s a it’s a behavior I could ever reference right yeah, I’ve seen it before it’s it’s Yeah, it’s just reducing it I’ve not seen this now I’ll forever be mentioned this on Saturday it’s it’s it’s Yeah, it’s so poorly done. It’s like it’s so poorly done you made you think it was done on purpose that’s how badly at us as almost like sometimes some telling a bad joke and it’s so bad they might have actually done on purpose to get a rise in the people because someone can be this thick oh yes he came to this sick because every time is tries and years upset when people call me out on it and he’s pressure know tech tech savvy consistency since we had that break, I’ll just cut this cut out all sudden this is going to materialize and funny series hang on we’ll just put it up here does that work? You can do it in it it once age all my arms like this and another lesson All right, just doing the editing we are good to go okay sorry Sure. This these means I did not complete all these ones I would just I was just gonna say like I feel like that done but um unless you wanted to go back over them feel I just I just had any conversation is very soon I go over some stuff for 40 talk to other people about or yeah have already published those are all right, let’s move on. And it’s a free flowing conversation. It’s going to go anywhere on backwards and forwards and whatever it’s really good. Okay, I’m going to talk about black man Yeah, well I guess we can talk about that. I think we’ve got time at the moment I am we’re getting close to time but yeah, I’m gonna have to read probably like 20 minutes if that’s okay with you know if you can dream up something we could be here an hour three hour but you went out is another life of me. I don’t if you want to go through some quick quick ones. They obviously want to talk about black black that you’re doing about that? I’ve done model cover that so it keeps him happy. Okay. All right. When a black man come from, I guess, know, for I know that might be that thing he was working on right now. And so it was a form of electronic cash member was black Nick. Recall when he was he? what he called it the time. But what’s come up lately? And excuse me last night what’s coming up lately over the last month or so? Was Craig’s caught out lying again about history of Bitcoin. Taking the the published version of the white paper, Ali’s the first published version, published physically November 2008. Australian eastern standard time in the morning. So to the US Americans and Europeans it’s it’s it’s I think it’s Halloween city first of October, but it’s not what it was it is fully consumed by for a while. Why is the moment mistaken? Anyway, face remember been about three weeks later, there was another updated version with a couple of little changes. Think pretty sure. Some of the going to check that but I’m pretty sure the first published one hit the VISTA member count on it. Oh, yeah. And one in three weeks time in the genomics account? If I’m wrong, that’s correct. A pretty sure others can confirm it. I don’t think the game is one existed before then. I think it will I created just for that that new release because we’re that we’re getting sidetracked on something else to go back to Brittany it again, right? I’m pretty sure it’s right, Dylan, you’re asking too many questions and meet him and to leave them at work. And or 12 hours later, the 12 hour shifts, sitting 14 hours later the competition and continued. And since I was talking through Craig, Craig was getting annoyed that that he’d be talking to this person asked questions that prison ask question back or some of that. And also, I’m not there to answer anything. I was going to say to the guy, and I think just tell me on the work wouldn’t do that. So you said right here because update, you got to put your email address that they can contact you directly. Because he didn’t want us to wait. And I think when modern regular old people like I’m asking a lot of questions. Yeah. And so there was the gym is one of the German mousy just to screw with people’s minds. But this that’s something else another time. Yeah, so what was going on black name likeness? Yeah. So the white paper or at least first of November 2008? How we we’ve been mocking going around that around cryptographers any claims for since about August or say, right around there? Maybe late July or August? around there? Yeah, it was before the bitcoin.org domain on was was bought it which is what the 16th and 17th 18th of August I was before there at least a week or two before that says like early August would have been when the draft copy of one of the draft copy so Springsteen Yeah, and so the black knit abstract they trick on paper, right? Right. So I was perfect getting all these men were assembling the white paper that get all this information, me explaining it to Craig into David’s all that. And then we’re saying what does it mean? I explain it in simple terms. And then what does it mean? I spent at somebody’s house, how’s it connected that and I explained it back forth, back forth back forth. They really didn’t get it. So each time I had to, from from about Yeah, I like team paragraphs, I had to reduce it to like five paragraphs and to make it as simple as possible. And that’s what we use just copy and paste that because it’s condensed explanation. In the most simplest him this one the white papers written so differently than any other cryptography or academical other paper that any high school student can read. Because I had to explain it in very simple terms to these others. Student get it for months later, yes, it seemed to work then and no color. But after you’ve got different sections, you’re gonna have you’re gonna have an abstract sort of white papers have extra introduction, that they wanted me to put it in production. They couldn’t because they didn’t understand it. So so right direction, direction, the precise summary, right? If you did book assignments when you’re a kid at school, where it’s like a summary of a book report to summarize it, and and give it to them. And then they came back and did all this just curious. As to blank, can you like, pop it up a little bit? Or something like that? Yeah, that’s it. Now you asked me for another production, there’s one addiction and said we can’t do because this to do, they’ll say, well, you use it as the object. If it’s itis equals MX plus B test. The point of the FX is if you could googling, right? And yet the synopsis of the information that comes in, usually they get from this extra parts of white papers, I’m sure that whatever is in the abstract head to be the first thing people read about Bitcoin with the doing a search on it, right? So it’s gonna be very, very important about us as you’re instructing, right, let’s see, well, you’re gonna have to run another introduction, I had already done that. As teachers, there’s always going to return you, right? Yep, they didn’t really understand it. So what they did is they went through the emails and information and plug things into that, and it was just good enough. And then that may change and this is good enough. And I think the change that change it, that means that you get in there. And so even though they wrote the introduction, it’s through me the best in putting something together, they didn’t understand insect, is that right? I change it. Is that right? They didn’t understand what the hiking writing and basically, the abstract and the injection come from. So I wrote the abstract completely. And in the introduction, was amalgamation type thing. Right? So I don’t know. And of course, with using David’s like in the editor, something will be modified grammar wise as well. So I think that there was changes between the draft and then what was released. Right, there was a huge argument for me and Dave, we were the word was broadcasted and broadcast. I don’t know if it’s a neat little introduction, we talked about transaction being broadcasted. It was originally with forecasted, and can’t remember somebody put it in it or not, but I always want to be contrarian in whatever it was was accepted. I’ll do the opposite to see if the argument stands up. If you make an assumption, and you argue against it, you might find a lot of assumptions in a crackling leaves the breakup assumption, it means you can work on something that hasn’t got the assumption coming. It can also mean you always question the assumptions. Because that’s what people usually our own. Anyway, um, yeah. So so what what grace, what happened with the black net things? Know, Craig, Craig, with these little kinds of always he’s, he’s trying to you, in a civil case, you don’t actually have to come up with the evidential proof like we’re in a criminal case. Okay. You just need to have a reasonable doubt type thing, little surprise, for plausible. So. So if he can manufacture all this information online there, and then he’s a civil case, he can actually use this evidence. You know, there’s anything different. Is that civil case going to bring in all these other experts that say, No, that’s not true, not true. people that listen to him? If you build up a community, communities, look to the one that’s the perceived authority earring out here saying, But hang on. That’s not true because of this. And they showed the fact that this is not true because of this. That totally ignored. All right, no matter how many people yell and scream, they’re not ones that that the community is listening to, this won’t be as leaders growing like enhance. It’s also collapse in certain areas as well. But that, yeah, so So this, Brittany, he’s got to establish that he’s not gonna matter, without validating that his solution that can moment, singular, not plural. He’s got to prove that at least in the court of social media, that the gym is was his, because if he cannot give a plausible reason how it’s is, is, then people say, well, hang on just the number one main social with VISTA model was used to communicate with them on mailing list and other people. However, this is that’s the main way. So it’s the one on the white paper. That’s the one that was on bitcoin.org. Right. You cannot say that that was not his. So he’s going to make it plausible. say, Okay, well, so that was used the most of us on that white paper. White Papers, say it’s worth by so touching a committee. That means the Ettrick must have been written by me, how do I prove that check was written by me, let’s say there was actually a modification of something I was already working on for it. Unless you’ve been working on his radar for pattern of five years, and for them for a year and a half, four dimensions out in the paper came out, it would have been working part time of five years in 42 years. 77 years, the you know, the spontaneous daddy’s gone, what, 20 years. At one point saying is we’re working on this for 20 years. Really? Big Pharma, big failure? Much while right? You do filing for 20 years? and magically, it’s just got it right. Yeah, right. Okay, I took what one and a half to get the core part of that three, four months to get the some of the other elements have six months total to get the whole thing going. Even working at full time for two years, as a lot of file. And it goes a lot of what’s bitcoins, the experimental program was put out till nine just start getting new data. Wouldn’t would be added to be advanced further and faster if we didn’t actually hit the suppressive thing and hide everything. Just just putting myself in this do it. It will progress a lot faster than having to do everything through. But I have used the word surrogates in the past and I’ve been informed by some people that Sarah get the wrong word us Sarah, that means that basically deputized to represent you and everything in August and that’s not the not deputize. It’s more like delegate around but but yeah, that’s what was working with directly. Yeah, but you couldn’t because this is like project the blackest of the more because I’m doing such as well, the thing you’ve got your back to black knit, right? We’re working on black next week. Yeah, but the thing is that the problem we have and people might say do something else that’s rubbish. At the time I pointed out and this is one of the reason why the social distortion that components in just have a real names originally I’ll not even on the draft is going to be a real names, just says what format that the white paper after was, at the same time of doing little programs, testing it and I kept thinking, this innate breaking, and then what do you mean, no matter what I throw it at what angle or whatever sort of game theory to the angle the actor is going to play in and how the coachman done. It’s not breaking it all. I think this might be the solution. They’re not as a solution that will give it a go but doesn’t might be the solution. If it is the solution. We should not be putting your names on to at least not sure I went and here’s why not. And I said dumb because in every person remember what state they’re living or what which which country they live in? Where they reside and they’ve got trees and laws and managing was most the manager law say if you go and put your own money, the deepest their local currency, you’re wearing an orange suit the next day? Okay, when it comes to trace minerals, what was your citizenship ship? Is your on your passport? Yeah. If you do any of the trees and was an old country, but even if you do anything against that state, right, there’s the state’s interest. You’re wearing an orange suit the next day. And this worked and it looks like it’s gonna work keep throwing stuff at it. No different ideas of what created this way held that respond Norris. Look at this word. That’s Fayette County gone, war will end up having a global currency. Okay. That means it’s against all the monetary policies of all the countries of the world. So they stopped on people say, I rather like literally, literally dollar a they’ve got silver and actually stepped his own physical coins and selling them something like that. And he got stopped on it. He was doing it in the US. We’re doing some odd basically, the country or record and every single measure across the planet, as well. That’s a lot more dangerous. Yeah. And the trees and the wisdom and where you are, you’re also getting a lot there was some nations that I read about that. Even though they didn’t have capital punishment, they still had capital punishment, punishment for treason. Oddly enough, so in general crimes and stuff to you want to put the names on it. And so the idea is, once it’s out the Wi Fi, we’re not gonna get persecuted, we just do an update put our names on it. I was always a plane after a year. So you put our names on it. Right. But right but it’s that bitter, bitter, the safe and wearing orange suit was wearing these shirts. Yeah. So you know what the hell I’m not actually have a name but like to black knit. Yeah, so he’s got to try and put evidence at least have some did a Google search because that’s what a judgment to get information white one white one moment that go into back office doable, a Google him some of that information. And Craig would want some information with a Google Plus to say, our blackness 2001. But the world is the issue. It looks like it looks like everyone was like he’s telling the truth. And they’ll make a judgment based upon that. Right? We don’t have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it’s gonna be a judge going to be basing make a judgment based on that type of stuff. So he’s going to have it generated. It doesn’t help that when he was typing, Craig, right, it says Forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward. Right. So he’s got quite an uphill battle to overcome himself. Oh, my goodness, right? Yes. What he did is he grabbed the extract that was published on fist and I remember, modified it to make it look like you’d written it about six, seven years beforehand, and around building out the Hang on. Surely it should look like the draft copy of the abstracts, not the final copy, because the wording is a broadcast broadcasted, or what some of the what are the front, one of the phrases that was changed? Was the change that was in the one that he put out there. So it’s very clear he modified the Publish one, not the draft copy. So it was the draft copy different seen the draft copy this different to the current version that’s out there. Now. I’m on adjustments to like some grammar, corrections and then adjustment, but but it’s mostly the same, like 95% 90%, the cool thing? And why did why did the draft get updated? All because things like broadcast broadcasted, or some of the wording was not as clear as it was to what is it? What does this mean? I’ll be to make this clear, but just reading this word, Dr. Within he used the one that was updated, that was updated, which the the updated text, right, the updated seniors, which is obvious to everyone, so he that he was in a rush, he forgot, or he’s done on purpose, which was he doesn’t make sense at all. Why would he assumed you were at the now he’s seen people right now that say, he’s not Satoshi. So like, how do you say I’m not on the bottom was domain where I am? And if you I’ll see you soon you say I’m not it doesn’t make sense preview or, or shut up. Right? It’s just crazy. And then he does someone does, which is a blatant plagiarism. Beforehand is is tangled up in the last two or three months, he’s changed that now. He’s, he’s saying he is such a lack of it, was to touch it. And then he saying he wrote this, he quoted that. And it’s lie after lie after lie. I don’t know if he’ll be able to prove it. It was a proven that court of law, I’ll be very interested to see what documentation you dealt with. Because I was communicating through work, and he shouldn’t have the information. But he hit the information, he would have published it already. Right? All these haters will just disappear overnight if he actually just showed an email saying he wasn’t communication into this to this person. Okay, right. And so there’s there are a couple of books out there. There’s a 35,000 word essay by Andrew Oh, hey, in publishing the London Review of Books titled The Satoshi affair based on his book The Secret Life three true stories which is essentially about truth in the digital age in order to rather than Hagen was involved to spend weeks with Craig collecting information for the subsequent article book and truth package that article is DB fascinating read but too much to recount here. So as part of his time of the Hague and it is present at several interviews, including with the BBC, and after publishing his article and spending weeks to Craig his PR team Calvin and others trying to prove craze claiming Satoshi okay and does need to view the whole thing with the London Review of Books and I think we’ve got a and then first first of all the interview with the Hagen is titled Andrew Hagen why Craig right Satoshi not waterproof is proof failed doesn’t know understand why that is but if you are Hagen highlights Craig’s deep discomfort with being interviewed appears as though he doesn’t actually want to be doing any of that this and that he simply does not feel comfortable being asked directly Are you searching a Komodo? Let’s have a look at the clip I don’t know if I have a look at this clip. Do we have the clip Joe? Yeah. You were gonna say to you that you can say hand on heart to me. I am I was the main part of it. Other people help me Why did you feel though that you had to come out Why did you feel you have to keep secret for so long? Okay, so he asks me think about that quote by the way Have you seen this before? Oh yeah. He also said that one of the one who was some swearing in a Frenchman awesome on that you know? Yeah, it’s quite dumb. Yeah, was it one on one you’ll never do this interview again top thing he’s done like 70 plus video interviews since then. I’ll tell he’s never going to come out and publicly really not just the way it is as I was saying earlier about how this whole thing of stolen hard drives in 2015 and people trying to talk some momentum already raised that actually wasn’t even want to own it. Is it as far as I’m concerned as a total fabrication of it when I think one of the people that he’s talked to said to to Andrew that that none of that Craig he loves this stuff yet it might be uncomfortable interview situation but he loves the tension and all the rest as it were shrunk the last two or three years it’s this is natural characters as being become obvious to all Yeah, yeah. Oh, I get it was very the story of what it was very interesting. Well, first thought was so bad, but will only be a half down and then there was like, either pay area will only trade so much well, right. And it’s only like half a year on year later that it looks at them at all. There’s another section in the other section. And some of the stuff that was it, because someone else told me to see all of it was like in the beginning I thought never saw that with the window looked at other information. And what I was just discussing with other people had been sort of mentioned where I am in the last half of it. Right? especially between any mentions about going out to see the analysts here was information that he didn’t written down and he mentioned right at the end something about what if you were part of this is actually group but which is more than anyone else? Anything but but for you to like sell these patents and you know, get money and rescued actually had to level up to be coming into the main part of if not the only guy in with only psychics or something. I am but you just couldn’t pull it off. little thing. It’s what the end of it I Hagen which is sort of telling. What Why do you think he didn’t answer the question directly? What Why did? Why was the attitude? Although it’s a bit different, because there’s I’ve had other people ask me some some on top of things, and most times that you in just a few day get to say, Well, I can always take it so much because of all that documentation, everything gone. So you can’t just stand for make a claim to be buying something and then go but without verifiable evidential proof. Yeah, they both have to go in and one in hand. So I can I get a ticket so far. Yeah. I’d say okay, this happened, this happened. This happened, this happened, but I’m not gonna say I’m this. Right. He was differently. He was saying, I am pregnant I am. What’s the issue? If you’re proven? There’s no issue at all? Yeah. All right. So why wouldn’t he is asking you to ask them such a way that you won’t you won’t take as long as against you and such as in your day, right? So his stroke his ego will just tell you that whenever he wants, but yeah, he said time and time again. Every time he’s trying to prove it something it’s always been faked every time now since he gets so upset when people say why you’re not seeing it. And if all these attempts were were done on purpose to make sure people up to see our gotcha snarky at you. I just like this trip mega obviously fake documents to see who have a little sharks who do I names of the put down to say, right, I’m going to do with it because an IT person the person who other lawyers, leaders, can you do this one of the tricks them to find out who the enemies are, right? You got to know cuz you your group of people, and you’re a leader. And these people usually follow the leaders in the space of might be yakking, and this might be making the shaking. But if it’s what this person is, and he’s not so loud, you know, that’s a lead and it’s what you’re going to target will talk to it is but um, yeah, but since he’s getting so upset when people say, when I believe you, if there was intention was to get these people to say, well, they affect next right? It means that surely, he was actually trying to convince people, right? Unless he’s got bipolar disorder, which we can’t discount that. I want a nice person or not so nice person. It’s pretty clear by his reactions to people calling them fake Tashi in fraud. Those attempts were teams to be true. And they be taken is truthful. And as I said before hand about it’s like Nigerian scams, whatever you’re not, you don’t want intelligent people find you. Right? And so you know, yeah. So you don’t want the smart people falling out class? Do you want this community to only listen to you and ignore the bundles and say, hey, that’s false. It’s false, as well. As the only problem occurs is that these people were saying, hey, that’s false. And these people can actually hear them because the part of the same social media to try making a closed system so I think what’s happened the last few months and it is that the people then then the naysayers are just too vocal. Instead, he attended the law, legal threats were to try and close them down. That can backfire. Huge, huge way all you need to do is have someone stand up against them, worth the evidence, get the list be able to present the evidence to a judge go Kingstone a big way because you’re just you’re looking at damages you’re looking at lawyer fees and all the restaurant can be charged Becky some frivolous philosophy really again it’s like it will see before I get information judge Kazakh doesn’t good links he has come back in and as long as information is presented of this is very for this is the real document for the white paper this is the draft form it month couple months earlier. This is black neat when there’s a change of the Publish one right as long as a judge as getting giving that information then they’ll go the integrity of Craig is in question so he might be living a lie but we don’t know how it’s gonna it’ll because you need people with funds to actually pay for lawyers which usually means as I said before, we’ve got a legal system of justice system Alright, so we got anyway okay, and got a lot of other I don’t know there’s other topics here about the tulip trust. I think some of you talked about before is on the first of January 2020 is a big a big date. Do you want talk a little bit I don’t know if it’s the first of January or not to keep myself safe over the barrier 90 you medication but she didn’t say damning information being on my computer the ideas like task them to do something but I want to know whether it’s successful or not or whatever other what all the details on my computer so that if any IP is leads, right? And someone grabbed my computer I can say well, these are the ones because it did it right. Most most of the information he looked like Dave to it because he he had practical experience using Tor and setting it up in making sure Ibiza correctly. Craig played around a little bit but I highly I think I’m usually twice want to test and see how it works. And other one was doing turrentine so I could test the current system and then I can set up a post. So in newbies coming to the community and try and set up their guns, they’ll see some some like was a Bitcoin one on the virus scanners was saying the Bitcoin Bitcoin executable was was a malicious software or had a virus and it was just they just do pen and matching there’s any virus software to that guy john McAfee will do very very simple. There’s just a pen matching this this pennant inside the it yet well, this pit in this for this virus that might be a horse simple stuff. So there’s something in and become co just happens and how the bits and bytes oriented itself to make it look as if it might be alerted them to might be a virus or something. And so I saw this lip got screenshots put on them know, so that no one else does the same thing. They’ll sit for come up with it through it and see people responded saying I don’t worry about it or do this or blah blah blah blah, right? Yeah, but what was the question? Oh, shoot trust I got to visit January 20. Well, yeah, the delay trend doesn’t do something I don’t know exactly where the information on site. So was day that was setting all that up. And I wanted to sit up and shoot him Why? And he asked me I need this information, materialism information. But I didn’t want to say see what the actual result was. If someone got my computer they can’t say ours that trust and the is that company and that by buying the transaction they were counting only want any of that stuff on their own stuff on their computers, specifically Dave because he’s the computer forensic expert. He knew how to protect the stuff like really long passwords that will never be bragging anyway in all his other stuff. Right. David someone who just not not Craig and yeah, yeah, and so and so with with the Julep trust, there was a few ideas of what’s supposed to happen either. What actually happened? I don’t know. The keys which has been tweeted about lately. were originally supposed to be there all bunch of private key and public keys. You supposed to generate new ones transfer the other dealt with the b2c coins for the dresses Sunday, Jun 1917. To these new addresses? Yeah, you keep those private keys, those private keys are put into a trust that the signing of the transaction, you get a reward transaction, right? Yes. They’re all trained next those organizations especially steep put on memory sticks. We’ve been putting a trust somewhere and the original private keys are deleted. Because since people boasting online there’s been thousands of thousands of dollars on private investigators to track it down or track down Who is your who is behind satanic right? On the Bitcoin don’t you take a look there boasting about it? Right? I actually well of private people are going to boast about $20,000 123 letter agencies doing right now. Right. Yeah. And so we got a particularly in such a way that if we spent just one coin from any of those races, who will be sniffed, and then people will be running software right now. Just give me on all the to 90 on day to day basis, either move. Right? They’ll have programs running on ISP is all around the world. Right? Not individuals, and I’m not the one about the three letter agencies and stuff, right? Yeah, five is where we’re US government can spy on us citizens but using them again. So I think it’s using them to spy on us citizens in New Zealand government can spy on us on citizen so they get the Australians spy on the Five Eyes, basically looking at into each other’s stuff, because they’ve got laws, privacy laws, the Cat Cat doing the same people, but they can be in cahoots with other countries and have them pretty, pretty malicious actors. All the state governments. Yeah, so. Yeah, so that was it for the chiller trust. The idea is for him to hold information, you can have everything, get rid of the private keys. Because if we had the proper case, even as one when the price rise because there’s only $1 then going to $3 and replicating and drop down and we’re going to go up again and think well the incentive to actually sell some because the weekend day job great. We just have a few and all sudden, you can stop your day job and she just do this full time something you like to buy a house for him to live in Asian go on all agent actually live a life right? Yeah. Well didn’t seem to be Hi, as soon as the blocks up a little bit. So you got to take the take that away. Delete the private keys. Because again, you can say well, but did you delete the properties or not? Well, hey, I’m isn’t something to do with trust? No, no, it’s a dog monetary system. Don’t trust another buddy. Life itself, you still trusting me? Yeah. And so I basically had a hammer down that that if you have did not delete the private keys, when the price goes up, you will try and sell them through an exchange over into a bank account Bank of gotcha, you’re gone. And if you’re gone through me, so look up and see the communication and see the IPS in north. And then we’ll go So basically, when there is why it was such a tight knit group. Because you have governments all the time the cabinets, have they talk privately and also what was said privately is out in the public. Right. And nobody knows who in cabinet lick the material of one way around that is you have a tight group to other people. They communicate with an alpha Satoshi group information from their first are concerned that we’re going to associate with the only on the alto and because of one of those people said something that was told probably we don’t know who said it. But when our title group innocent know, if something like that, we only when you about we will know who would have done it, right. And if something leaks, and it got back to us, which means that here we are pleased knocking on doors because you keep the private keys because you couldn’t stop yourself from something that we know who to target. Right. So the idea was get rid of the private keys. So I think the fear of being caught was strong enough to that are gone through these transaction side. Supposedly supposed to garner trust and inspiration that sit on my without actually hitting them up. I don’t know where that trust was it says up? I don’t know, I think it’s more been in the US. But for now it’s it’s the Seychelles account or Canary Islands or warehouse. I think K is will bring it information out or something more specific. But um, yeah, I mean, there’s also there’s the issue of the authorized officer for W Wk. Right. be authorized officer, you actually have to like sign a signature. Yeah. And it’s gotta be recorded under your name. Right. And that means your names public. And I was supposed to be the public officer for Wk, right? And I said, I’m not getting my name in the open if wave you guys were to Craig, keep it private key and decide to try and sell some some Bitcoin is a prophecy pops up. I don’t want that leading to you. And Linda Wk in leaning, too. I like it suspicions authorized offers that back to me. I need it very good. What point was to put a barrier in the name public? Is as well for this week be legal name is Scott it as part of the last one say well? Well, some places you have companies owning companies owning trust and trust owning companies and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, set it up. So this is it’s possible set up so that these authorized officer is actually a company or the trust is outside of us jurisdiction? Right? And right me that authorized offers on that. That way, I have control. But miracles not in the best way it’s supposed to see up but I don’t know if he were doing it because I didn’t want to know what the results are that way it was really about can do with it. Just does that mean that you have some you have some addresses that you’re hoping I guess the Bitcoin will get transferred to? I think Yeah, all right, Ryan, Ryan, I’m Dave not dying. I’ve got this thing of of the universal fates. That idea is where the this happens, this happens is up to the individual face, right? In the sense of all right, all the dollars on my hard drive, I should back it up. I’ll back it up. I put on the calendar or back it up in one month’s time if it fails, and the next month we were in a loser the data clearly it’s the folks that actually happened in two weeks later files are clearly it was meant to happen on supposed to lose it data, you know, and things like that. Gotcha. So things like know Dave dying, it’s sort of like a bit of a sign it right? Yes. Yeah, because the thing is, what should I benefit if David not going to benefit that’s the well being of the world’s gonna use the funds for were to build the machines for the planetary to build these these total power sources. As you can’t afford it. And he can’t he can’t do it. So deep, deep basing rubbish monetary system or, you know, things should be getting cheaper. If you got the manual labor to make a thing here, and now you’re a machine that does 1000 them within the same time. That should be a thousands of the price on wall or at least whatever the labor courses. Right, right. But it’s not it’s more expensive now, isn’t it? chewing gum? company has guy was seven cents an hour. It’s $1 50. Now, it should actually be like half of it. Really? Yeah. That’s right. It should be so low that those items like food items shipped right now we should not be worrying about I mean, machines, machines that you’re making enough food right now and Western countries that we should go to the grocery store and it shouldn’t cost two or $300 shipping costs on Tina. Right? Should be Holly anything. So the fact that we’re getting shouldn’t go towards that should be going on other stuff, which is far more important, progressing human species. Yeah, so the sooner we get into global currency, the sooner we can actually join this technology will push us further than ever gone before. When I spicy other fighters here, but Nice, nice, elevated the idea is is NGO synchronous, all but yet the planet, geosynchronous orbit, and you want to elevate the easiest way to get things done, right. And if you think of things like Bucky tubes back, back monster will flooring tubes. with someone else, you might make strong enough cables, whatever, or even sections to the geostationary orbit. But the whole thing that you have more cables going out to a white at the end. And if you’ve got that white continuously going out, looking things up is technology whatsoever. You wouldn’t do it in here. But you know, just thought that’s changeable force of the white thing, pulling the cables out further and further further. And he ran out and then you’re obviously like, put an actual right here and cut it loose type thing. Right. So it’s wasteful, but it means that you import stuff under the jurisdiction has geosynchronous orbit victim for free. notepad you didn’t use job buddy rocket ships to do it? Yeah, I wasn’t and and geosynchronous orbit, there’s like 17,000 kilometers an hour or whatever it is spinning around. So you just need the other chunk to get further away to the Moon and Mars and stuff. You know, the biggest amount of energy is getting from ground level to geosynchronous orbit, I think was was it didn’t nonviolent from I can’t remember his name. Talked about resale license for that. Right science fiction book that you talked about? Emmys satellites as well, if not selected these elevators? That’s not a paper fiat currency system. Yeah, but a global currency. The currency we’re the initial big chunk of those coins are mine in the first few years. So when it kicks off it to be a global currency, those coins, they only took a few thousand dollars with to actually $15 to generate and now with trillions, trillions are owned by people that want to push technology in the human species forward here. Right at the moment are many the rich, they only want for themselves. Yeah, right. All the new you got people like Bill Gates said that the unscrupulous behavior all through the 80s and 90s and then and then are in retirement or well start putting money into these resources. So I’ll be remembered for like, getting rid of polio or getting rid of this disease and you’re not gonna get away from what you did in the 80s and 90s and stuff like that. Are they doing either they’ll push the human species for the same something diseases and one thing that we’re currently got, but it’s not going forward it’s just stopping now. Right? Still very important. So I’m looking for that but um, but yeah trillion dollars if you’re going to have a whole bunch of billionaires and millionaires or whatever it is, whether it should those funds reside in politicians know and property developers know right? And people that are like social media know probably people that want to push the right built build like I’m totally games and space elevators and was listening and with a decent deflationary currency is where the bulk of it is actually mind early. You can do that that’s true as a whole the whole is all I know is the inflation, inflation or deflation right in the wrist. And Bitcoin was mentioned in the white paper it’ll never mentioned right? Could be inflation or deflation that was all figured out later on think okay, what do we want our planetary civilization how do we get it this and this and this object code like the same kind of like that right mix it’s me to do that of course to be able to do that on specific issues those funds however Judah cranks behavior This doesn’t seem to be happening name equals Dave. Dave didn’t help whatsoever. Right? The basket, right? selfish. Yeah, but Well, there’s just one direction we’re still going to have a planetary civilization just never do it different way. Right. But again, it comes down to who’s going to have much the funds should we change it to just a small inflation you say 2% every year like currently as well. Now at this stage, because what we still have to do is we have to build the machines they will do most of our work with service should have it already been here but because of the inflationary system, Fayette County we haven’t broken and we never get as that utopia Bitcoin can get us there so I’ve just got two more questions feel because I know we’ve we’ve covered so many things pretty much knocked over soon questions. That’s what four hours Yeah. The first one I’ve got is Were there any other names for Bitcoin when you were coming up with it? Oh in the naming of it yeah, it goes it goes to the first draft wasn’t called Bitcoin was good yeah, that’s what it was it was is that the technology to allow you have a digital asset that can be transferred as someone else on the Everyone knows that that ownership transmit whether it’s county or not yes currency version of it was just the first test and major test because for the other users with the idea of property or anything else, you still need a global currency that’s the number one thing even if all the rest failed Yep. And just be able to hit the global currency takes great Yep. Right and and so yeah, so the first one we draft coming up, which is electronic cash we are using a third party because gets it right. It is the electronic age without a trusted third party. You don’t need to trust the table. How did you get the other day not the other third party Jessica a trusted third party don’t have to trust that they could be Mangle naming a filthy MongoDB criminal Aaron is my mom and the dad have to get on well yeah, it’ll still work still going to work with every single person being malicious actors. How did you get to like the Bitcoin name Well, well well in Congress twitter feed it three like July or August sometime the know wasn’t like July I’m pretty sure the one that got sent out in August had that what the draft copy here and that wasn’t in August so it must have been September October around the the discussion took place and I’m going to rename it to this you know, there’s some of them might have changed it out for a month or two that are people they might want to change this this game but come out with it. Craig was this on Bitcoin? of course what the first thing you do is you the name of something.com bitcoin.com already existed. Okay, here’s a dumb idea to use it now. Right? The most dumbest idea exists in one of his about Bitcoin bitcoin.com or this other thing. It’s not what I hate about all right. Roger veer ended up paying a few thousand dollars whatever it is to the original owners of that domain name so that’s what he’s got it now but that’s where it’s mentioned. Set it mentions about bitcoin.com and being associated with it. It was with the previous owner which was not you know, you think well you gotta give a name something so you know cool something that’s cool. Facebook and Google facebook.com or facebook.com don’t exist well can use Facebook be stupid right clearly Facebook didn’t exist that’s why they would happen to use it Bitcoin already existed dumb stupid use it but Craig and system and using it comes down to again getting by and top thing appliances know it’s going to be this type thing he’ll go walk away I’m trying to communicate through him and he’s not communicating well that means I’ve got to get out from the bottom of the barrier and communicate directly that puts me more at risk. I saw the case well Should I put before can have a better name or just let it go on that guy and and and and all those decisions like that always come back to it I don’t want to wear an orange suit so I’ll what I prefer to keep the barrier near a few things falling to pieces and that store the better results It doesn’t matter how rich you are if you can’t spend it in your own beyond boss right? You said to the name of the coin we argue about it like big coin and invite and coin and the bottom bits bits and bytes and all the other stuff that stuff right yeah, but he insists on the coin top Thank you Michelle I always look stupid but well that’s the way that’s that’s the yeah I guess it’s not you know, not always not always the way things go isn’t it? So it doesn’t matter can be changed at some stage right? Just like sending you the once in coin to be good with Penny or 25 seat coin in the US is called a quarter right one thing could be something that might be a Bitcoin but what we call it may be something totally different country my colleague Chris Nolan sci fi movies the credits. I was like Oh can’t use credits because that’s an issue I ran into someone else in the banks but nothing in the current fiat currency system way you’d use credits as a just a way of explaining how they used right now you have a stash somewhere you alive while I get credit and it gets credited back with it. Right? And so you could use say the term user credits but the key right because it takes a bit of them says user Tim credits innocence of its usage not in the sense of a carrot Fayette County banking system right got it. stores all have that base thing called Bitcoin behind the scenes. Okay, um few last question do you think the world will never accept an answer about who is Satoshi it with verifiable evidence or proof I had some few people lately I’m trying had done to the banking to try and find out for the bitcoin.org pitches that they can find the data from my account remake the and still looks like it’s no good day the people that know the technician that used to Dallas means that it’s just a mess. Absolutely me so I’m talking about like data store on tape drives only half a dozen years ago Wow. That’s like yeah, very very pretty bad technology. Right? So um yeah most cases they don’t even know what Dr the database should be stolen it’s it’s amazing that Becky system works at all if it I wouldn’t be surprised the banking system or on the world does not work at all and most of it is just carry each other’s back signs and hopefully knocking caught if you did an audit of all the banks right now the financial system collapse instantly Oregon finance all house account entire thing that’s that’s my own personal opinion is no proof of that but when it comes to this the first thing is is verifiable proof and I think so that’s why I can’t go I can’t do have proven goes about no data or information or emotion it can’t be busted at least not not entirely because know what who did one credit whatever that some of the sequence of what happened over the years and stuff I recently fuzzy but the general flow is pretty good. Since all the information must have went through Dave Asprey Craig Craig should if he’s kicking around be able to present things like emails and stuff right in abundance that show that I’m the one that under this account was in on it under the market and and show them surely what is Shannon by now so the mistake is made of the last year or two and then in the community he works shown to someone think he’s got the middle so it looks at the fear of what I’m talking about leading all the information so that right from my grabs that is no proof manufacture heaven so it means now you might be reliant on the trust she is pulling transferring the coins or something I don’t know. Yeah, so I can’t go private go busted but kind of overall plausible we’re giving the story enough information and details and hopefully people can go and take a look at that and ship sail will take over that make sense? Yeah, yeah, I know this one of the things when I go on and on about the the logo is you know, there’s the BC logo was was published in there was the update and theories john teen we may got the new the idea that’s a touchy as a group of people instead of one person came in the source forge forms and 2009 when Craig and I had different viewpoints on with the T Shirt Guy, I wanted to go to planetary civilization. He was like online gaming for tokens or something. And we were we had access to the source code forms, such as you can say that we post and but some newbies come in, in the real the doctor information. And they start pointing out saying hang on this, especially when personal or multiple people because he’s saying this, and then two weeks later, he’s contradicting himself, right? And people start doing threads entirely about the inconsistency of our posts. And so that’s we actually had to create a new form the Bitcoin talk was on the coin, or before his own domain. And the idea is to transport people over there, make the act of one to buy stop posting important information on the source forward 100% new one, it will get people to go to that bookmark more than that, and a few months later, the idea is just to delete from so they know if hopefully, non will think about archiving you stuff and see the contract genomic is better for someone to be trying to track down one person in know they’re tricking for model people. That’s how the tracking them was different. So we wanted that evidence to disappear. So the materials that around might be multiple people. But yeah, yeah, so those are about the logo. So that’s how to attract more people to do is get a new logo, right? Can you logo and only have information about the logo on the new message board not the old one and things like that, right? It’s a make this more special again, the barn and that the Bitcoin be symbol, right? Made it is a list of instructions. So that even if someone’s never seen it before they just follow the instructions blindly in a drawing pregnant and recreate the Bitcoins. Yeah. And, and also to make sure all the interactions are there. Got Dave and Craig to give out to whoever is out in the out of Satoshi group to take a look and someone complained out one looking for I’m not really into graphics, Addison say but you can still read English English, he see if you’re talking about a green line, he has a red line, the old you know, missing pieces and stuff. Yeah. And is that one and also a fully orange logo, there’s some there’s photos of public the public is considered that was published by Michael between. But that’s also why it’s written using a set of instructions that was very similar to the first one. So it wasn’t a new one. It was actually vision to Facebook. And I wanted to see before and about having to help the community understand that you don’t have to be a cryptographer, or mammoth petition to be part of the community. One of the fights on it was only in the community for three months, didn’t know any cryptography, cryptography and again to actually publish this new logo design. So I’ve found someone right and we’re communicating back and forth from that really great if someone could find out who their issue which was because I must have convinced them to publish it for me by saying something either by proving something to him or by wording in such a way for him to do it because nobody would do that just a random stranger right? Yeah. Right. So I made him clearly always either high up in the scenes in the record and type thing or something else. Yeah, so some of the Bitcoin name I think the only made it like the day before was going to be published which I think is a bit odd because it shouldn’t have happened I should have keep whoever’s name is I don’t know what I remember is that he was one times I away from Australian Eastern Standard Time Is it tries to seen but but not living in China right so that makes me like like Indonesia or Japan or something like that later on with the case you know that know that know the some of the Asian countries they’ve got their own luck kit it’s got the airport that’s going on is is gold ones are ones for different what you’re lacking well for lack of lucky in love and and he made a little rough drawing. And like funny or not funny like like, like spiders some gave it to me is it could you do something with us it’s similar to the Lego thing as a robot can’t do it because the logo is a deal with all dimensions 12 and a half percent in a certain angles and software. barking clear up. So So oddly enough, the the cat what drawing that was also published in there, but boy, that was the opposite way. And he did an initial rough sketch and the drawing for it. But the logo itself was all me. I got him to further instructions and he stuffed up because the bottom right part of the be isn’t supposed to be stretched login as there was a mistake on a spot. But one of the interesting is if we could hunt down some of the top down who he is, was someone that was in the community for three months. So it about 500 members. And if he’s still alive, he contacted if he’s got access to the direct messages, we had the telling our story, it’s even more interested in this. Right? Because if I was I was concerned it was made such a way that the for the public consent he published that I can turn around say Well, technically, in the messages would show that it’s actually my copyright. Right. So I could turn around and say what’s my copyright? You can’t use it on you know, license or something I didn’t actually he was published it. permission. Feel look lets them thank you so much for joining us. That was awesome. appreciate you sharing all that information. It was absolutely incredible. Guys, do subscribe and do follow us and that is daily exchange. Yeah

42 thoughts on “Who is Satoshi? Alleged Bitcoin creator Phil Wilson tells all in interview

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  3. It's not Craig's BSV. He is Bitcoin's steward at the moment. Change the info to "Learn more about Bitcoin SV" or "Learn more about Satoshi Vision."

  4. personally i think a guy with a practical/imaginary mind solved bezantine problem not a scintific mind. i havent heard a story from faketoshi how "he" solved it.
    -1st cryptographic prove. But it only will show CSW KNOWS truth.
    -2nd CSW tells all the story how he did it, who helped him, doin what
    -3rd Ill take it from there to conclude who Satoshi is/are

  5. I don't know when people will start to get that Satoshi wasn't a cryptographer even Gavin Andresen said that. No matter who he is in a real life he proved to be very smart by sharing his creation to the world online. Maybe this guy's accent is weird but content of his talk actually makes sense. So let's see Satoshi Nakamoto was a group. We can see that by looking at web archive of sourceforge devs and we can see 2 Satoshi Nakamoto accounts. Satoshi used 3 different email accounts?! meaning multiple people involved.

    Craig wanted to create secure electronic cash for online gambling because people were refunding credit card deposits; take a look at Bitcoin's white paper introduction and you'll see that problem being addressed:

    "Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institution serving as
    trusted third parties to process electronic payments. Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot
    avoid mediating disputes. …there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need. A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party."

  6. Phil's story is the most compelling I've heard, since he explains the reasoning process behind the concepts. Can't easily make that stuff up. He's documenting the real process of conceptual breakthrough – drawing from all his areas of knowledge, rejecting the assumptions of people who haven't solved the problems before, etc.

  7. Definitely warrants another interview to be honest. There's a lot more questions left:

    – Can he summarise the contributions each made to Bitcoin?
    – What are his motivations about coming out about this now?
    – Was it Dave that mined the 1m bitcoins?
    – After moving the conversation to Bitcoin talk who took over in the communication to give consistency?
    – I'm unclear on Phil's motivations for coming back to Craig and Dave after dismissing the effort for a while?
    – What role did Craig play in the technical problem solving of Bitcoin? Was there any discussion about scalability? Do you think he has this technical capacity?
    – What does Phil think about Bitcoin (BTC) in its current form with Segwit and Lightning today?

  8. for the space elevator :

    i was calaculating it for kevlar/aramid/ which was then avail. 800 km line can hold its strenght. Spindle shaped much longer. But still not enought to over geo orbit.

    then got the idea .. if Earth would spin faster … but .. if the line will spin around .

    So the line sould eneding on edges of atmoshere floating platform/plane (EP) and extenging it to space. If the line will orbit let say n times faster (per day). The elevator be nk times shorter. Center of mass of whole system will be less than geo orbit orbit but the other end will extend to space (possibly to geo orbit). (the original space elevator need to extend far behind geostationary orbit so the over geo mass will pull the under geo orbit mass)

    What is the other benefits to not have it grounded to earth as the original ( thne unnkonwn then[1]to me) Russian 40ths idea?
    0) shorter line less mass, build by spinning start line from midle orbit then adjusting it roataionas build progress.
    1) dynamic propeling the whole . the EP need to have thrust to overcoming the drag. Should have wings- stabilisators allowing to dive down/up during load movie up and during construction.
    2) transport to EP can be done by EP line pooler picking load from atmospthere planes . From lower speed objects eliptic end of pooler movement .

    Such floating elevatror could be build with today technology.
    near athmosfere space elevtor NASE

    To solve – construct. Edge of etmosfere engines , cooling of line due to drag of upper atmoshere. The energy to EP will be solar . panels on the egzo ened .


    –1 in MarathonTeh inc 2-3y inil.

  9. I wish someone could add subtitles. Playing it at 0.75 speed, but still there is a lot i cannot understand in that accent.

  10. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how lying looks like. Pay attention to his body language, especially how he avoids eye contact when he is lying. And he's bald, trying to cover it up with the few hair he has left, it's laughable. I can read this man like a book.

  11. In my opinion the story is true and only a person like Craig’s personality and character could invent something revolutionary like Bitcoin. The problem is that Craig is not too likeable and Bitcoin maximalists do not like him. They feel that CW is not able to represent or lead their community so they try to bash him and at the same time they don’t say who the real Satoshi is.

  12. Remembers unimportant details very thoroughly, forgot the important stuff. Incoherent blah blah instead of a single proof. Lol.

  13. Thanks for the video. I find it hard to understand the heavy Australian accent. Could you add a summary/timeline of events as a followup to this video

  14. This guy is even worse than faketoshi, unable to explain the most basic ideas of bitcoin, he avoids direct questions because he is a fraud.

  15. I really wish some questions regarding Craig's design indications were asked. The community hotly debating decentralization, anonynous ledger and other aspects of cryptocurrency design are all relevant topics in all cryptos. I would have liked to hear this guy's opinion of what his vision when he contributed (if) to the development of bitcoin. I would love to juxtapose that with CSWs vision for BSV and MetaNet as second opinion of the beginnings and intentions of the original bitcoin.

  16. Obviously Craig was there Dave too , that is why there was a lawsuit, but this dude cant speak a word of english, i thought i spoke really bad but he beat me

  17. Phil is fine although he overestimates his involvement by a lot.
    Even if he was in charge of creating bitcoin logo , so what? big deal. Does not make him Satoshi does it.
    Not even sure who's idea the logo was, Phil obviously had an access to the specs which again proves nothing. I use freelancers all the time , does it mean the own my business?
    They sure know alot about projects I hire them to deliver, they sure have to come up with new ideas in order to complete the task.
    But that's about it as far as owning my company or the product/service I provide.
    Phil just happen to be a talented coder hired to do a job just like Dave and few other were.
    It was Craig who funded the whole operation and if it was not for his dedication, hard work and the money , we would not be even talking about bitcoin here right now.
    I mean ask him next time who paid for all the servers and pc power, who was financing bitcoin development. I dare Phil say anything other than it was all Craig's money.
    In this country , last time I checked,company owner owns the product not the other way around.
    Or do you think Windows or Apple belongs to some nerds who are working on it and Bill Gates has to prove his ownership to any of us?
    Most likely the reason Phil coming out is because he needs money. There are plenty of btc turds who would support anyone claiming Craig did not create bitcoin etc. simply because btc is not a bitcoin anymore. The real Bitcoin is bitcoin SV and that hurts.
    Now if there was any true to Phil's story, why is it Craig patenting everything around it, not Phil or any other wanna be satoshi ?
    As far as some unrelated comments: if you're an American and cant understand what Phil is saying, sorry but you're just dumb. I am not native, although lived over 26 y in US, still, I can clearly understand him. I mean this is nothing, you should hear some Irish or Scottish people, not to mention some GA/AL residents.

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