This week in Bitcoin- 10-27-2017- Bring on November! BTC crypto-dividends, Giacomo Zucco


hello everyone this is Adam Meister the
BitcoinMeister the disrupt meister
welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
October 27th 2017 buy-and-hold long term
thinking 2020 having alright first of
all thank you to the person who sent me
bitcoin recently people been sending me
Bitcoin and all my address there below
always check out the links section below
all four of our guests are linked to
below so you can see what they’re all
about
yes this week we have a four guest three
of them are in Europe one of them Ansel
is back in the United States so this is
international type of stuff here people
I wanted to open the show with in a
quote that I just got from the actually
someone in the live chat because the
live chat starts before the show I can’t
check out the live chat much during the
show before the show I can the person
said it feels like the Bitcoin space is
under a magnifying glass that moves
literally literally in a line with time
as we go along the current event seemed
like big deals but looking back at him
they seemed like non events and you know
what I am telling everyone everyone is
so worried about 2x and about crypto
dividends and friendly forks and
unfriendly Forks we’re gonna look back
on this one day and just I think laughs
I’m not worried all right jacquimo is in
Italy this is his first appearance on
the show jackal escucho welcome to the
show
what do you think about UX are we gonna
look back at this one day and just laugh
and what do you think about all these
hard force first of all thank you very
much for inviting me in this show I’m
very happy to be here so I am a little
bit worried for 2x as many are I am I
don’t buy very much the thing about free
dividends about free money because that
is a that’s a as a fact that’s true that
I get some money dumped in my
cash and I will get some money dumped in
my b2x so that’s that’s that’s true but
economically speaking we can imagine
that when you have one critic currency
which splits the total value of the
price is not magically enhanced by the
splitter itself otherwise we just found
the formula for the eternal richness for
everybody we we fork every two days and
we have we are all super billionaires in
Bitcoin actually and the thing is that
when you have a split actually you
create the two economies which are
individually weaker than the their their
their sum is somehow weaker than the
previous entire economy why we don’t see
that why we after a theorem and a film
classic we had a growth in a market cap
well because there is another there is
anyway some pressure of of new demand
that would have been there anyway so the
price of Bitcoin original become before
between cash would have been greater
than the sum of Bitcoin plus Bitcoin
cash not just the sum but even more
because economies have a network effects
so in some sense a fork do actually the
fraud you of some money and the money
that you get back dumping your coin as
everybody should do is actually just a
partial recovery of the value that you
have lost this could be false
especially if someone thinks that these
two splits are serving different kinds
of demand
like for example Bitcoin itself could
not get some kind of super big blocker
in because I mean my Kern was out but
now that we have big block on be cash
Mike heard will buy again so we if you
are assuming that the split is serving
like when you have a spin-off of a
company and you’re serving different
markets then you can imagine the
splitting after a insert and some
circumstances can actually increase your
total market cap but I don’t think
that’s that’s the thing with with
I think that actually the main value
proposition Bitcoin is to be the digital
gold independent impossible to modify
mutable impossible to control so the
fact that you have to X is not really
increasing too much the value probably
we will see an increase of the value
because the fear of the fork itself if
and when nothing catastrophic will
happen we relieve some fear and so we
will have buy pressure so in general it
would be better without Forks that said
especially contentious for that said if
you really have to have one fork then
it’s better to have several because if
it’s like alt coins if you have Bitcoin
plus one Bitcoin clone that’s bad
because the between crone can pretend to
be Bitcoin can steal your momentum can
actually defraud people with false
market tickers with first name false
logo false marketing while if you have
Bitcoin and all the alkynes I mean okay
you have a tedium that is trying very
very hard to try to be a some kind of
scam replica but in general alt coins
are just another kind of of different
thing and I think that if people starts
to Forks every other day you will have a
Bitcoin the one and only and the four
coins so better to have three four coins
that was but it was better not to have
the the first one in him but he in the
first place and it is crazy because if
you think about it for a while
miners themselves were very scared about
actually do r14 contentiously
they threatenin it with classic with XT
with a limited but they never did it
because they didn’t want to lose money
but then we’d be cash these developers
with this crazy guys just started Geon
woo decided to troll mining on it
there was a difficult adjustment and so
the fear now is best and so I do think
that even if twacks doesn’t make any
sense
technically is just crazy politically it
was not crazy when he was intended as a
successful takeover but now that the
successful takeover already phase
I mean certainly and in equivocal II
failed so there is no even a political
point in creating on loser al coin but
they probably will go on in anyway
because now if you are the code some
manner will try to play with it they
they are fork is particularly dangerous
if you if it’s explicitly a phishing
attack like bit wax is worse than be
cash because be cash had reply
protection they didn’t try very hard to
steal the ticker on the exchanges or to
trick the SPV light wallets big bit wax
is actively trying to defraud the SPV
wallet owners so that will be especially
for them something something bad but it
will teach people to not trust SPV and
to rely on trusted fool notes well they
put it all out there judge bow thank you
very much everyone pound that like
button if you like our latest and
greatest and newest member of the panel
Giacomo I try to bring the best people
to this channel and speaking of that
check out my Brian Kelly show from a
couple days ago people it’s linked to
below check out the archives and soul
Giacomo just said a lot what did what do
you do you have anything to say and
reply to that you of any you obviously
have a feeling about UX and you probably
have warnings about it so go ahead yeah
I’m a little less concerned than than
Giacomo I have the utmost respect for
his opinion but I think one fork is bad
ten Forks is good because you know it
builds immunity it builds the community
awareness it also strikes at the heart
of a lot of these empiricists debates
debate points so they’ll argue well we
need to experiment we need to have see
if this is going to work
okay well go experiment on be cash or go
experiment on the 2x chain and also I
don’t think that they take a lot of
value away from Bitcoin I think mainly
they’re taking value away from alt coins
and over the next couple years we’re
gonna see
you know the altcoin market as a whole
just all the value gets sucked out of
that and going to Forks I think we’re
going to see I don’t know in the tens of
Forks over the next two years of Bitcoin
and maybe even litecoin and some of the
other bigger alts but yeah I think that
this is kind of an evolution of Bitcoin
in a way and overall I think it’s going
to be positive yeah go with you on that
it’s hurting the altcoins more than
Bitcoin type of thing I think I think
we’re creating a new tier of alt coins
here and is surpassing the top tier of
all coins that already exist so I mean
coins like – couldn’t be hurt people who
used to hold – might now want to get
into some of these be cash or be gold or
whatever just my opinion and money
Triggs what do you think about that what
do you think about all this just said
what are these are these forts hurting
anyone are they hurting all coins are
there hurting Bitcoin and are you
concerned about us
well I would say you know the first fork
be cash
I saw it more as a as an option by the
miners to keep a lot of their hardware
that has like the ASIC boost exploit
valid to mine blockchain that’s not sag
with so and I think the only thing that
kind of hurts it is the branding you
know you’re gonna have a lot of new
people a bit confused about the market
and like and then people trying to sell
them the new like oh this is the cheap
Bitcoin it’s better to invest in this
one blah blah so it brings a little
confusion but I’m not really concerned
we’ll see what happens with 2x attack
what they’re trying to do with the whole
coinbase you can see the the corruption
that’s kind of going on with the CEOs
with SAPO and coinbase and all that
going on bitpay
so what we’re gonna see what’s gonna
happen you’ll get a good chance to get a
discount if something crazy goes on so
keep the money ready to buy the dips do
you think 2x is going to survive as a
coin do you think it’ll be around in a
year still I you know to be honest I’m
putting a 50/50 that that they may
cancel
the only reason they won’t cancel is to
save face
you know because they’ve done it so many
times if you think about you know bu and
all that kind of stuff and it’s been
clear even with the Vinny leaked email
that you know they publicly in their own
group will say like lists and it’s not
even about you know getting to megabyte
blocks because segment right now is
already two megabyte blocks it’s about
removing the reference repo to BTC 1
it’s it’s basically removing the whole
core structure in what makes Bitcoin so
powerful of a self-sustainable
developing community you know back
checking the the best in the world so
that’s really what’s going on right now
and I know I put it 5050 that they’re
gonna even try it but it when they do
yeah I see it as a very low value coin
if they do launch it I’ll put it at 5%
okay all right Levi well what do you
think are you worried about 2x long it’s
gonna happen give us your u-turn
everybody give your commentary man yes
no I don’t I I posted the video earlier
this week about Bitcoin gold and the
title is let’s just move on with our
lives I mean I think it’s you know I am
about these kind of things now
yeah it’s I think those folks are just
stealing value of Bitcoin but in the end
if you look at it just from economical
perspective also Bitcoin has the brand
recognition and other things doesn’t
matter at all Bitcoin cash of course
had some some mining support but what
happens with segment to X our mind is
really going to allocate some hash power
there and if they are going to allocate
has power there there is still no
difficulty adjustment on sacred to X and
I think based on that it will just die
in the end will back that up from a
mining perspective that that’s my
opinion on it admin and the rest has
been said right here alright so you’re
making you’re moving all
your life you realize you know there’s a
December after November there’s gonna be
a future world is not going to end in
November so everyone remember that stay
calm everyone
uh anyway before we forget we should
talk about that coin that Jay garsik
just should start with that one because
I want to hear him destroy that I was I
really was just just about saying that I
was okay I agree with many of the things
you said after my first command so I
agree that one Fork is bad and ten are
good I agree that this is longtime
antifragility if it can happen then
sooner or later he has to happen in
order to try and agree is together to
fight CEOs first then government later
assuming that CEOs are not are not
explicitly driven by government right
now I also I also do agree that probably
right now they are hurting casual trade
are they’re taking the money from casual
altcoin traders and not from Bitcoin
orders at least in the long run but I
wanted to specify that yes I do I do
feel worried that bitcoin is not as
proven as a concept of resiliency as we
like to think I’d like to keep this kind
of mindset for my own I mean sanity but
I was really more worried before Jay
garsik publicly explained it that he is
that after months of pushing for a
contentious are fork trying to control
and change Bitcoin he actually did lunch
is Camco —-n IC o—- based on a
theorem which very proposition is
getting away from for kdrama Bitcoin
which himself is cousing and also having
a coin that cannot be cannot be
manipulated or controlled by anyone so
after this kind of really really I mean
this is too embarrassing even for the
kind of reckless guys that are
sustaining this kind of attack I don’t I
I didn’t see any attempt from from
anybody of the 2x pampers to actually
defend this level of craziness what we
should avoid is the renormalization of
this point of the debate I mean we
should really keep with with it whether
I mean looking at the contracts here we
have the main and holy developer of 2x
actually inches us fork and creating a
launching and selling on the market in a
theorem token based on the fact that
Bitcoin has contentious our forts so
it’s something beyond any it’s cam level
that we lived seems so far it’s
something really this is the new is the
this is the new a new day for Bitcoin we
we reached the point that Craig Wright
and one coin people and wittily boo
Turing together could not in so great
stuff that was some great stuff straight
out of Italy
that’s where Giacomo is right now you’re
belong right do you obey him in yes
you’re gonna we’re gonna actually talk
about where you are in a second but and
so it laughing his butt off he’s got to
say about all this – its new level of
well you take it away
Oh Giacomo I’ve I’ve enjoyed a lot of
watching a lot of your presentations you
have one of the greatest sense of humors
in the space you you just you made it
sound so damn silly and that’s exactly
what it is for people any logical person
any rational person that’s looking at
this situation there’s no way that they
can accept that you know as they can’t
follow that and they can’t
I mean miners that are still signalling
for some reason at 80% nobody can really
take this seriously
and that was when that happened I had a
podcast about that when that happened
the metronome stuff I mean I sealed the
deal 100% that this is not a threat at
all so that’s it all right
money trans you’re the one who brought
this this part of the subject matter you
say yeah I don’t know it’s crazy to see
all this unfolding it’s you know to see
good actors become very bad actors or if
you wanna say like incentivized act bias
actors you know from seeing Vinny go
from the good side to the dark side and
now completely like over the top and
Jeff garsik the same you know it’s a
it’s kind of like seeing politics and
politicians like basically merge into
the crypto community because you can see
like oh you know before they get elected
like yes I’ll do this I’ll do that I’ll
change it’s all positive and then when
they’re in the position of power they
take that dirty check under the table
and become you know the devil and will
do all the bad stuff and then you know
it’s it’s just crazy to see what money
and power does to people it just changes
them it’s very comparison to to
politicians generally the general public
forgives politicians and just forgets
and then they become they come back into
society and they do it all over again
and leave I do you see it’s some of
these people who used to be considered
good actors and now are considered bad
actors are they going to be forgiven are
they gonna be able to come back yeah you
know time will tell but the damage has
already been done you know it’s it’s
easier to do I would say it keep-keep a
great impression than a bad impression
so I think those days are over for these
guys a rest of the rest of the panel
here I feel that 80% of people in our
space just like they’d rather be just
flipping coins they don’t care about the
specifics they just they got short
memories are the bet are the people who
are now considered bad actors are they
gonna be able to come back and first of
all some of the people that are
considered bad actors a lot of people
don’t get
bad actors like the guy behind be cash
the guy I call king of the trolls
they’re people that still like him but I
think he’s Jesus still what does
everyone think about the cast of
characters and politicians are they
gonna be forgiving is this gonna be
forgotten in a year Jack and Jack my let
me see I can go first
cancel you take away yeah that was a
good point about the 80% of the people
in the space they might not care they’re
just day trading or whatever but I think
on the flip side of that 80% of the
coins are held by long term holders so
they are they are very in tune to this
and you know they they are the ones that
are vesting their time and energy into
kind of countering a lot of this FUD and
countering a lot of these bad actors so
and we’re getting better and better at
it so I don’t yeah go on I got I got
more thoughts but I’ll let someone else
talk okay so if I muted now you’re good
okay um so sorry I had an alarm go off
on my chart okay so I think that these
bad actors they’re gonna kind of have a
revolving door so we saw Andreessen kind
of get kicked out Hearn get kicked out
with XT I think the next thing we’ll see
is them come back I saw about a few
months ago they had some story about
Hearn actually had some early emails
like even before Bitcoin talked with
Satoshi so they’re kind of building his
credibility back I think and they’re
gonna bring him back for the next fork
attempt but we’ll see cycles you know
they’ll be out and then back in in two
years time and and we’ll have to go
through all this all over again
alright Giacomo we’ll be back in a
second he’s having some technical
difficulties out in the chat first of
all I want to tell everyone that pound
out
remember subscribe to this channel and
if you did share the video get more
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check out the notes section below all
these important links you can get your
treads were there etc etc now somebody
in this super chat sent five bucks and
this is a question that a lot of people
get asked this a lot but hey he sent
five bucks we’re gonna ask it he said
someone gave him a hundred he has
$100,000 alone someone sent him now
first of all look again taking a loan is
bad
be careful you never want to be in debt
but let’s say let’s pretend wasn’t alone
he has a hundred thousand dollars he
wants to know what you guys think he
should invest that in in what coins I
want to go first Bitcoin that’s all okay
uh what do you think what do you think
money trades okay so so we’re shilling
coins I’ll know yeah the guy you should
set 100k and also the timeline but lon
long-term I’ll keep it on Bitcoin
Noreen yes Levi haven’t you yeah I would
put most of the money also in Bitcoin of
course but other than that I would not
name a specific coin for the trolls but
I would I know but I would put them in
some buckets you know privacy coins for
instance but also how to say this
enterprise computing and maybe also
social social network coins alright
Jockamo are you back can you hear us
yeah yeah now I can hear you sorry for
the 2x sabotage attempt rose alright
this is a three part question for you
because you missed a couple things
comment on if all these personalities
that have gone bad
if they’re gonna get if they’re going to
be forgiven there’s a guy in the
audience who wants to know if he gave
you $100,000
what coins you would invest in and and
if finally talk about where you are your
office and what you do there miss people
are curious okay so first I do share
some of your concern about people and
having people having a short memory like
with politics after all disease actually
politics this attack is a political
attack on Bitcoin so it can happen what
is I think the Bitcoin core not in a
repository sense but the Bitcoin kernel
culture is very very serious very very I
mean very South very difficult to to
mess with but what I’m concerned about
is that there is some people that right
now for very very noble humanitarian and
and intellectual resource they are
pushing everybody to be nice and to
actually do not do not be harsh on these
attackers to respect not to assume good
faith I do think that while personally
if I just met Roger ver for a dinner I
can actually have no problem be nice I
think in collectively the the fact that
we are not being nice with these people
and we are not forgiving and not
forgetting justice to quote some of the
early with corn adopters and animals
false is actually part of the Bitcoin
immune eteri
system itself bitcoin is not just a code
bitcoin is a code and Essex is code and
Essex and people the fact that you
cannot trust people’s people
individually doesn’t mean that you don’t
have to trust at some degree some kind
of culture because a Bitcoin can be
politically and culturally hijacked the
the game theory per se is maybe not
enough to keep Bitcoin pure and working
if there is not some kind of social norm
that I think that we should partially or
or or at some extent ostracize the
people that are attacking Bitcoin
there’s nothing wrong with that morally
that’s actually part of the natural
reaction of Bitcoin itself as a complex
you partially human system so second
question if I had some money I will just
buy a Bitcoin that doesn’t mean that I
don’t think that we should differentiate
the investment the it’s it’s wise to not
put this the old ax in the same same old
story but I don’t think that all coins
so far our differentiation I think that
they are all subpar clones and I think
that if Bitcoin died I I think that
because we live because 100% of my
career my face my my my my dinner toast
and my money are on Bitcoin but if
Bitcoin does fail I do not think that
any of the existential coin can ever
succeed after Bitcoin actually Bitcoin
has beacon had a very very special birth
a like it was conceived without external
attacker looking at it it was too small
to be frightening at the beginning and
now it’s too big to be stopped and
that’s something that you cannot easily
reproduce with other experiments and
also there are there are the network
effects there are not just money Network
effects or a hash rate Network effects
you also have the brain power network
effect they breathe the most brilliant
people on the planet if they can choose
where to work when they have to work on
a open source operating system they will
choose Linux if they don’t have strong
reasons not to and they will choose
Bitcoin if they have to work on some
cryptocurrency so I think that the the
the the gap the intellectual and
technical gap is overwhelming so
differentiate between cryptocurrency and
other stuff I think that’s good if I add
a little bit more money I will buy
physical gold probably the ammunition
and maybe some real estate in in foreign
countries maybe I do keep some fiat for
everyday transaction but it’s like less
than zero five percent I thought I don’t
think
that investing in Fiat is a very good
idea I think it’s really be reckless and
risky and a little bit ideological to
invest Fiat nowadays but I don’t think
that internally differentiation among
cryptocurrency does make sense in the
future if bitcoin is digital gold an
economy is not just gold an economy is
called depth credit bonds stocks shares
royalties voting rights so an economy as
complex representation of value I do
think that in that someday probably
after the scam ico collapse we will see
other forms of digital value probably
leveraging Bitcoin or or technologies
that somehow are seamlessly connected to
Bitcoin like side chains or methods
protocols or whatever we will see other
forms of digital property which makes
sense but I think that most of the of
the critical states are now they are
pretending to be digital I mean the
computer gas or or storage proof of
storage but actually the oldest kind of
application can be replaced by an
application that does distribute the
storage and is paid in Bitcoin that does
distributed computing better than atiim
and is paid in Bitcoin so when you have
digital gold you don’t really need or
there is not really space for other
digital goes so to make a long story
short I do not invest in all coins ever
I never did if I was a good trader I
will trade in all coins but that’s
different than investing I would just
pump and dump in the short term so last
question I’m and yeah yeah yeah I’m in
the office of bhp Network or blood shell
lab is the old name but block China
Bloodshy lab was a little bit as cami
name because it was that there was blood
chain there for marketing reason now we
drop that it was useful at the beginning
to get some money but now we can just
drop these blockchain ounces and this
bhp which is a here’s mere which is a
hello waiter pick out the headphones
Mira’s here and a few minutes ago you
had like Ricardo Quezada of up in ten
stamps and Valeo Vacarro are you the
expert and a few other guys now it’s a
little bit desert usually we invite here
expert from all around the world we pay
for travel accommodation expenses in
order to help them working on the best
open-source project
so one time we have all the Lightning
developers together and we push them
then opened up stamps then maybe trusted
outdoor elements so we select some kind
of topics and we gather smart people in
order to cooperate on that and and some
tourism since we are still little it was
cool it’s a cool place you got there
um you travel all around the world um
how how big is big point in Italy what’s
the ecosystem like there in Italy
compared to the rest of Europe in rest
of the world what do you think so very
interesting because a medic on ecosystem
here started little but full of
Champions who are of excellence examples
for example the the most older the
oldest the Bitcoin exchange there of
trading is very little but is the oldest
exchange alive there were all this
exchange but they are all dead is made
by Italians the most advanced Bitcoin
wallet pre-addressed wallet the first HD
the first other compatible the first and
the most advanced green address stop
born here in Milan and we have like one
city robbery toe which is a Bitcoin city
just like our name with the highest
concentration of Bitcoin business in
Europe also we had the first association
that we sent to the European Parliament
so a lot of good stuff a lot of
Champions but right now everybody’s just
going away because the ecosystem around
doesn’t doesn’t allow you to grow
Italian as a political system is a super
socialist super super in innovation is
impossible here and so for example we
have
our foundation bhp is based in
Switzerland for I mean for several
reason not just Texas but even
bureaucracy and and political assurances
and virus reason now we keep the
logistic place here in Italy but I think
that properly in less than one year we
will actually be in Italian Switzerland
so Italy started interesting it could
get soon dessert from the point of view
of the business ecosystem while the user
ecosystem I mean the worst is the
political system the best is for Bitcoin
so in a way I think it would get better
for mass adoption corruption tax evasion
it will be worse for business that will
be great somewhere else well thank you
I’d love to hear what’s going on in
other countries and you just use
something up real nice therefore for
Italy all right
Ansel I didn’t ask you the $100,000
question yet I think I’m gonna know what
your answer is though so take it away
no yeah yeah Bitcoin only or maybe short
altcoins
if there’s a basket I could short right
now am i short all coins but yeah I
would like to follow on to some things
that Giacomo said there with the ostrich
ostracion or however you say the word of
the people in the community I think that
is spot-on 100% they’ll attempt to
rewrite history and you know we need to
guard against all of that and protect
new money that’s coming in from getting
pulled off and wasted on these guys just
you know the the new money will come in
fill up the scammers coffers and then
they can fund the community once and
once again so we need to be on our guard
for that stuff also about the fair
launch of Bitcoin yeah I’ve said for a
long time that post Bitcoin it’s
probably impossible to have a fair
launch or at least as fair as Bitcoin
and
for all coins that has been one of the
biggest problems I called it the
bootstrapping problem in one of my blog
posts and to fix that problem they they
had all these claims ok so now we’re
gonna do smart contracts because that’s
gonna help get money in and people will
mind that the claims built and built on
on itself and now we’re seeing the
inevitable collapse the next phase of
that is going to be a fair launch that
copies bitcoins launch these Forks so
I’ll go back to that again I think we’re
gonna see more these Forks because it
goes back to that whole how do you
bootstrap an altcoin without making
ridiculous claims well you’re just gonna
have to take bitcoins history and launch
it that way so I just want to expand a
little bit on that yeah that’s it that
is a good point and why this is gonna be
become a trend
it’s a pure way to start people are
looking for that pure way of starting
their quote unquote
your way of starting their their own
coin money trades and wealth money if
you’ve anything and Levi give any
additional questions as we’ve been
leaving you out by accident there I want
to give you guys some that time I would
just like to comment with the flesh
about what answer said right now because
I think there is a little bit of
misperception here that they decide to
make money when you launch a coin when
you do something is not bad in itself
the the desire to monetize to get
rewarded for your work is not a sin is
not a scam per se the problem is that
when your ambition is to create a full
open infrastructure then you have a
serious bootstrap problem in a serious
trust problem and coordination problem
so I will not like Rene’s like every
every time you try to make money somehow
everybody is like reacting instinctively
oh that’s a scam let’s not let that you
can make a lot of money that’s legit
just not if you want to launch a free
shared open standard infrastructure in
that case I’m sorry but you have to give
up grid you have a strong monetization
problem and you cannot avoid it and you
have to be fair not because it’s a seem
to
get money but because it doesn’t work it
doesn’t create trust and coordination
alright pack members what do you have to
say about that any thoughts
I know people must be holding some stuff
back you guys anything they had I have a
question on what giacomo would think of
the raided ICO for Athenians Lightning
Network version I would really want to
hear and destroy that one but will not
be a really original I we just say it
alright if you’re creating
infrastructure that’s not the model
that’s just a thing that actually ruins
the incentives it ruins the sensitive to
create the project because you give some
some kids a lot of money without
responsibility with our shareholders
without agreements without non-compete
you just give them money and they they
are supposed to do something so it
doesn’t work it that is not it’s not a
scene it’s not simple it’s just an
effective for for this kind of
infrastructure level work the people on
on the other hand I feel the pain of
people working on this kind of project
and the reason we started with the
nonprofit foundation giving money and
and help to developers just because
there is no really a good solution like
like people working a lighter Network on
Bitcoin what’s their business model red
hot we create the standard for free and
we will be the best guy working on a
standard for support implementation
business integration okay but we cannot
have 1000 red hats so business models in
Bitcoin space are shaky like I worked it
with Laura’s with Korean dress and it
was a nightmare I was like this damn for
a few weeks and it was like can we
actually sell private intellectual
property no of course so per source can
we actually share today their users no I
mean it must be open and no lock-in can
we at least show some advertisement and
Lawrence said no because images give are
dangerous they could be malware there
okay so there is no way to monetize
become project so I I feel the pain for
these guys
the problem is that
if their infrastructure is already there
work on debt or just find a product or
service to lunch it’s not that everybody
has to create a new infrastructure and
the tedium lighting guys are probably
mostly web developers because they they
love solidity so they probably love
JavaScript and they should probably
create a great website actually a teal
unit org is great very nice graphics and
UI so pleased you are web developers you
have a lot of value to contribute to the
world create websites and read up web
apps that’s actually your job we was
gonna be smiley space there you got
something at that man I just really
agree with the code of course not but
getting back to domani’s question I I
think it’s over the top I mean they
already had that ICO of course early
ready team and why we did now erase the
ICO for the for the rated mail for me it
really doesn’t doesn’t make sense at all
and further than that I I totally agree
with Giacomo on that panel do we like
75% of my eat area mouldings big big win
lightning Network has four teams working
on lightning you know it’s all self
sustainable and then aetherium which
basically went up so much in value can’t
self-sustained they’re there for rain
and lightning Network like you know half
the work was already done you can’t
finish it it’s basically a money grab
you know you just have to be honest here
it’s like this and we want to quit 20 50
whatever they’re gonna race and you know
buy big houses and work again it’s it’s
a money grab and it’s crazy to see that
the community even thinks it’s something
positive because they’re just blinded by
the leaders like fatale Akande and the
little group that’s handling it so i cos
they’re just money grabs now and I’ve
that’s the value in Bitcoin it’s it’s
completely self-sustained like there’s
nobody paying the bill like everybody is
sustaining it so that’s why it’s
it’s gonna keep growing in value
definite lightning Ansel give it an
illusionary thoughts on this uh this
round-robin of topics here that have
just gone around not really they get
they covered it pretty much other than
just to say that yeah these I SEOs are
getting more and more blatant and
they’re they’re coming to an end
they’re coming you think I mean I mean I
think just I’ve been disappointed by
some of the popular people in our space
who decide to go the ico route I’m
confused here some of these people were
very smart but I it’s as if you don’t
see the writing on the wall sell your
soul to the devil it’s all for the money
you know how it is
they’re laughing all the way to the bank
yeah man it’s like okay screw everybody
I’m taking the money well in a way I
mean I’ve been probably more harsh than
most of the others about this I see oh
but really on one part I want to be
controlling here one part of me
understand these guys I mean there are
these morals I really bring you please
take my money without giving me any
contracts without giving me any right
you just take my money please and and
you actually have to say no I I mean and
also if you read the Terms of Service of
something like euros there is written
there in the terminal there is like you
are buying nothing at this point okay
it’s a scam but at what level actually
accepting donation by Morris is scam I’m
not doing that mostly for reputational
reason and for technical reason because
I think it doesn’t make any sense
yesterday we Ricardo we created a
triangle
I will be brief here but basically we
think that a ICO can be illegal and
Honus for the investor but not so that’s
just an IPO so it’s not very innovative
for the for the issuers or it can be
honest with the investor innovative for
the issuer so it’s an illegal
trip the security which is cool but it’s
illegal or it can be legal and great for
the investor so it’s a utility token but
it is a scam for the final investors so
you you have to choose
are you illegal or you are scam that’s
difficult but there is a lot of money on
the table and I feel for these people
that at some point just just cannot be
strong and they just go for it
so I SEOs founders are they getting
reimbursed for providing education to
these people because you know it there’s
very painful lessons happening that are
very important actually I agree that’s
entertainment it dreams that’s like more
entertainment sector when Steve us
fearful sells you UFOs or aliens it’s
not that they are real but you pay for
to go to the cinema so you pay forward
computer rich statefulness and graden
and and governors and you pay because
you have a dream and talk about ears yes
is a year long I see oh okay a year long
that’s for every little mom-and-pop
conference that they’re going to be able
to sell their bags and unload it man
this is better oh man like button on my
bottle it is amazing that it straight up
saying we’re you’re providing you
nothing and me it says in the terms of
the agreement you’re guaranteed nothing
I mean they’re not so you can’t really
call it a scam when there’s just people
are foolish they’re not read they’re
like them keeping my money to these
people because everybody else is I mean
that that is the madness of this face
and that’s why I know that with these
Forks that are being given away for free
that that might that might work out
better if people are willing to pay for
nothing they’ll be willing to pay for
these new coins just because they’re
called something with Bitcoin I mean
there’s just a rational 80% of people in
this space or irrational I mean I don’t
think that’s an exaggeration well say
they would because they created away in
order to create a four coin
and it reminds them so they are doing
both so now they can actually create the
best of the toured alright let any
anything anyone else or the ICO topic
before I’ve got I got one more topic I
want to bring up here and and this will
be real well yeah real quick here when I
head up Brian Kelly on the show who’s a
guy from CNBC he’s a a Wall Street guy
and uh he had a quote there is a wall of
institutional money heading toward the
crypto currency markets and that was
pretty exciting there that these uh
hedge funds are on their way and it’s a
bullish thing it’s something to look
forward to in 2018 do you guys have any
thoughts on that about this type of
mainstream finance Wall Street thing
pouring in do you think this is for real
do you think this is a real
diversionists Levi yeah I think we are
I’m ready I’m ready to for them to get
in of course if you look at 2017 and how
this grown already from let’s say less
than twenty billion to one hundred and
seventy billion almost and it’s just the
beginning
we are still at you know people are
saying we are already in the early
adopter phase but if you look at it from
a global perspective I think we are
still in the late innovative stage in
terms of the innovation adoption curve
you know I always say like if you if you
ask in real life how many people do you
know in majority if I ask you to my
friends and her family they know we’re
approximately around 100 people and none
of them has Bitcoin they all know about
it but none of them have them and that’s
the whole thing and we are now hopefully
going to that next level now that is
getting a lot of mainstream awareness
and exposure so yeah mm baby gonna be
amazing I think that one of the things
that this wall of institutional money
must show is that individuals may be
a Bitcoin but they’re just not
technologically advanced they’re scared
to hold it themselves they they’re
intimidated it is I mean we think it’s
easy just to go to coin base in volume
and in theory it is but some people are
scared to even make it then they’re like
how am I gonna hold it now they’re gonna
do this
so people want institutions they want
hedge funds to jump in so they could
just own a piece of the hedge fund or
own a piece of the you know whatever a
financial instrument is made up of it
takes Bitcoin they want to be a part of
it that way they don’t want all you see
in the part of the point of Bitcoin is
to control your own private key is to
hold it yourself but they’re still the
mindset out there
everybody wants a third party to take
care of it for them money trades do you
think that we are on the verge of
something big is institutional money on
the way okay so let’s not forget you
know the first that’s gonna bring all
the users will stay inflation bankrupt
banks d monetization capital controls
and then you’re talking about
institutional money wanting to invest
long term and something something else
you should think about is insider
trading they’ll be able to do certain
stuff like that
with less risk of of jail time because
there’s not really much law in place for
that yet so you’ll you’ll find hedge
funds basically like trying to trade
each other off like one will have a
large long position other one will short
it like it’s it’s gonna be crazy right
now we’re in accumulation phase I would
say but when the prices start to become
you know much higher then you’re gonna
see the big boys be playing the market I
try to short each other squeeze each
other like it’s gonna be insane and of
course remember all the people that’s
like oh my god you know fifty thousand
dollars it’s a lot I’m gonna sell and
take the money afterwards when it’s like
at a hundred thousand you know it’s
you’re gonna have a lot less Bitcoin so
it’s gonna be very difficult to hold cuz
you’re gonna have to need the biggest
balls ever when you know your account is
just like oh my god my 20 Bitcoin is out
two million oh my god I gotta take
because I think you know I
house blah blah and then you know it
triples in price in a few months or even
a year year and a half so just think
about what it will be in ten years
when central banks are using it as as as
a payment method because look how long
it takes to transfer three hundred tons
of gold it takes like eighteen months
like Germany is still waiting on their
gold from the Federal Reserve in New
York and it’s taken years and they’re
still not getting all the money Wow your
insider trading is very interesting and
remember people what he basically just
said is have Reno long-term thinking on
this I try to tell everyone to focus on
the 20/20 having and that’s easy to do I
think it’s easy to do but there’s a
whole new world beyond 20/20 I mean if
we get to that point and I don’t want to
jinx anything but where bitcoin is at
fifty thousand dollars for some
institutions that’s still nothing
so some you’re right individuals will
drop out at fifty thousand they’ll be
like oh my day is made here but those
institutions are going to bring it up to
a hundred to two hundred after that in
theory and you’re gonna people are gonna
look back on like oh wait a second again
the big guys wanting the long run so
remember you don’t want to be this beats
just like oh the big guys beat me out
have a strong hand think long term mean
yeah have the gonads of Steel like this
remember daily volume right now is two
billion you’ll have these hedge funds
will make like a trade that’s two
billion that’s just one trade
perspective really think about those
numbers people I know some people aren’t
good numbers but dude yeah this is early
on I still think it’s really early on in
all this and so how about you so many
great points there
yeah the two billion thing I think that
we made a kind of a lamb market a
hundred billion dollar market cap so you
know they might have these type of
milestones that okay when it reaches a
hundred billion we can invest this much
into the market when we reach 250
billion and we can invest this much but
yeah they there
coming the big boys are coming who else
is really going to invest when I look at
people that I talked to and just think
about the u.s. specifically people that
let’s they’re not gonna buy one Bitcoin
most people because there is you know in
the USA say what 50% of people can’t
meet a 500 dollar expense something like
that so they’re not gonna buy a whole
Bitcoin who is going to be buying this
it’s going to be these big companies the
big hedge funds the pension funds the
endowment funds all of these people
they’re ready to get in and yeah we see
with the most indebted country select
Japan you they’re going gangbusters for
Bitcoin and they just happen to have the
highest debt to GDP ratio right so I
think we’ll see kind of these that
pattern continue we’re the most indebted
countries will become more and more
active in Bitcoin we also see mining
getting all over the place so there is
going to be these big hedge funds might
open up or invest in mining ventures so
there’s a lot of opportunity to get into
Bitcoin mainly from the big boys the the
retail investors I think they’re either
in or they’re gonna miss the boat Wow
one call make to elite elite people if
you think of it the way he just put it
out there because yeah most Americans
they can’t afford a $500 like surprise
bill and the so they’re not going to be
even interested in just be like
naysayers if we go six thousand dollars
just so much yet don’t get a six
thousand dollar TV or anything
Jockamo worried what do you have to say
about this the future and you say to
make make you guys say it make therefore
sense to me absolutely I think that in
my little spot I can confirm that
Factory it’s still early I agree but
what I’m seeing so in order to sustain
the foundation part of BHP we are
selling information so consultancy and
we sell information
basically two incumbents so especially
banks so I spent the last two years
going to banks telling them you should
do stop on Bitcoin because it’s an
interesting asset class and they were
answering well no we want to use the
blockchain without Bitcoin and so I had
to demolish that and explain that and
for the first time now especially is
with salon where where I have a really
large number of clients banks that are
preparing technically to do Bitcoin cold
storage for their clients so at the
beginning it would be a mess that the
ecosystem is not even ready for that
there is not even a open source
procedure for that we are helping with
other aspect to create it but it’s
happening they are ready the regulatory
Switzerland is ready and when they start
other will follow I think that this is
even good in a way because as I said I
think that this was my talk in scaling
pitch in a breaking Bitcoin conference
in in Paris basically I said that there
are two kinds of Bitcoin users one is
the one who has to use Bitcoin so they
want privacy censorship resistance they
want permission lastness trustless nest
because they want to pay WikiLeaks or
whatever the other kind of user is the
investor is another kind is an old-style
old-school investor it doesn’t care
about permissionless it just see a new
asset class and it want to wants to
invest with the same old boring methods
that used for the equity or real estate
or whatever currency so they want to act
will keep up the phone and to ask the
banks to buy and store Bitcoin and this
can be good because right now the bank’s
selling Bitcoin stuff they are keeping
the coin on the third part exchange
which is bad or on a third party startup
which is where banks probably society is
to keep value safe so this is good in a
way I mostly the bit pissed off by this
because because of tourism first I spent
two years telling banks that beacon
isn’t interesting as a class you can
look at north correlation you can
compared to other asset class is not
correlated and they all always said no
and since six months they are telling me
yes and we also want to buy a lot of Z
cash and aetherium and dodging so wait
keep people keep calm I mean you just
learn now that you just recognize that
the reason interesting asset class and
not now everybody within a 1 billion
market cap is a new asset class for you
so there is like a pendulum right there
starting from nothing to every kind of
scam there they want to know they want
to do keep cold storage of everything
the second reason I am little bit I am a
little bit upset is that is a little bit
too early for my personal finance I
counted on the fact of community way
more Bitcoin before institutional came
on board I’m relating my accumulated
schedule and so I don’t want to be the
poorest bit corner in all the delicate
system so I I hope that they will wait
yet as one year two year but importantly
it could not happen all right
jacquimo ok now we’re reaching the end
of the show so I’m gonna let everybody
do their final thoughts it’s been a
really awesome show and it’s cool to
have four guests on at the same time you
really really get to have that treat so
Levi we’ll start with you what you have
any story you want to share any
information you want to give out the
people any any conclusionary remarks ya
know just some final additions to what
we have spoken about institutional
investors but let’s also not forget also
the retail investors and all the other
effects that are there in the end
if you look at the stock market it’s a
68 trillion market there’s still a lot
of money that can move over to to the
crypto space the the gold market it’s
like 8 trillion if 0.1% moves over to
our our cryptocurrency a world that it
will be life-changing as well for us and
also the forex exchange market there
those guys are also getting into this
space this is also daily volume of four
trillion you know
so if also a 0.1% or a 1% moves over
here and then we all go to the moon
so yeah so much yeah final thoughts for
me was dead and yeah I’m taking it a
little bit on a low with my channel
lately I’m finishing up my company
because I’m going full crypto end of the
year so I’ve been doing my company for
nine years now creating it and I’m full
force into crypto end of the years that
is awesome
Levi’s links are below of course you
check out his channel we’re located
again tell the world where ignore the
Netherlands the Netherlands now we’re
gonna move on this Spain with money
Triggs money
what are your conclusion airy remarks my
conclusions just like I said holding is
gonna be difficult when the price goes
so high so you know in hindsight sell
your watch sell your second car sell
everything you have because you’ll be
crying in like 2 to 4 years because I’m
doing it right now man I got my second
car for sale I’m like why do I have that
there I’m gonna sell I’m gonna buy a
Bitcoin I should have done it a long
time ago you know that’s a really good
point you’re going up and value you saw
his car for five thousand baht foresee
grow I bro listen this is true story I
bought a new car a few months ago okay
well guess what if I just want to help a
bit longer I could have bought four of
those freaking cars ok ok listen I’ve
had Bitcoin since like the two hundred
bucks and I bought a lot but you know it
goes up to nine hundred a thousand you
like oh my god my wife or this you know
a little kid brat but I have to buy a
new car let me buy it and then you know
it’s five grand later I’m like oh my god
I could have bought that car and a Lambo
you know so just you know keep that in
mind people because in like seven eight
months a lot has changed and that car
would have bought you know five cars
that’s this is a true story
Wow pal not like bum people from that
comparison I mean that that puts it in
perspective especially for American sure
into like buying cars and stuff you know
extra cars Ansel is not a he’s a he’s an
American that knows how to save
what are your thoughts here butter your
conclusionary remarks by the dip yeah
yeah I wanted to take this opportunity
to emphasize too I had a tweet that was
really popular the other day and I’m
really kind of honed in on this topic
right now is don’t let the attackers or
the anti Bitcoin folks don’t let them
try to rewrite history
we know what is the truth and really
stick to our guns and make sure that
everybody knows it and don’t let them
try to come in and just put a false
narrative out there immediately call it
out that’s why I’ve been trying to do is
like scan and as soon as I see something
that’s totally fake just jump on it
right away to try to squash that before
it takes root at all so I just wanted to
re-emphasize that yeah I do a podcast
two three times a week
try to get that money out and Bitcoin of
markets calm or you can find me on
Soundcloud iTunes stitcher all those yes
and Ansel’s Twitter linked to below he’s
got a great Twitter I’m at tech everyone
te CH B alt follow me they’re all what
we be going wild on Twitter lately
twitter has been a lot of fun what money
Triggs is a very well-known from there –
that’s where he throws up throws onto
gatekeepers where the gatekeepers by the
way in our chat today the the trolls the
most disgusting trolls on earth they
haven’t been there today it’s great it’s
been I’ve been checking over to the chat
it’s been really clean you guys the
people there you guys are the elite so
Boris thank you for the fine Australian
dollars that you just sent you man you
Rockets alright so Giacomo those started
off the show
now he’s gonna end the show with his
conclusionary thoughts saying what you
got to say man take it away tell us
what’s going on anything you want to say
I hope I didn’t talk too much but the
questions were very good also there the
comment I have maybe I’ve been a little
bit too much talkative but everything
was very interesting and I’m glad to
have been on the show
I will use my father
to actually launch my pre I see oh no
I’m joking
now I actually I will follow the I will
pull up there the last the last advice
do not forget and do not forgive these
this attack will make because stronger
but we can be nice guys personally but
even very very strict from an ecosystem
point of view with the scammers and we
have to be do not forgive easily please
remember that if you don’t run a full
node you can be scammed quite easily so
so we took a while to teach people to
keep your private keys now we have to
add another step keep your private keys
if you are a Bitcoin users but also
connect to a trusted your own full
validated node otherwise gauzy can
actually sell you anything for a while
then it will lose anyway so Mir come
here that you can say hello as well and
thank you for very much for having us
here the show hi everyone beautiful
conclusion there and we’ve got guests
all around that’s cool hey congrats it’s
the first Bitcoin baby man they’re gonna
be the first Bitcoin baby couple thank
you actually we are thinking about some
kind of you shall child offering we
should do a baby shower a big big coin
global baby shower the first ever I will
say this is I gave a friend in in the
year 2015 when his baby was born I gave
him point one Bitcoin it was worth the
25 bucks then and now it’s worth what is
this 600 bucks so give give people a big
coin presents when they have a baby and
then when the baby is ten years old that
the baby be very happy then it got a
Bitcoin wait when it was a little kid
put your address for your Bitcoin baby
address there
man-on-man come in alright it is
hey people seriously give Bitcoin as
presents it’s a great way to teach
people about Bitcoin they all of a
sudden think I’ve got the 20 bucks worth
of it and then soon after they’re like
wait a second I have 30 bucks worth this
now I got to learn more I got to see how
I gotta store this correctly because
maybe it’ll be worth a hundred one day
and if your friend is not very tech
savvy give them the Bitcoin but keep a
copy of the private key because maybe
who is it what I’m doing I’m giving
everybody Bitcoin now with with weddings
with birthdays only bitcoins yeah this
is great man hey people out there we’re
giving you use cases for your Bitcoin
and yeah it’s it’s a way to spread the
word and it’s a way and your friends
will like you a lot
within a year the trophy a lot more than
they did beforehand but friends are
friends all right we’re gonna conclude
it i adam meister the bitcoinmeister
this rut must remember to subscribe this
channel like this video share this video
do check out the notes section below
pound that like button that was this
week and pick one who will be back here
next Friday we’ll have a brand new panel
some reoccurring guests maybe some new
guests who knows this panel was awesome
they’ll all be back in the future no
doubt so bye bye everyone and again I do
a new show here everyday not this look
just this weekend big point so hey check
out our show from yesterday I’ll be back
tomorrow with my regular show the one
Bitcoin show bye-bye everyone
see ya

26 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 10-27-2017- Bring on November! BTC crypto-dividends, Giacomo Zucco

  1. I am not worried about forks at all for one very good reason. There is a lot of money stored not to be touched. This is where the future lies. one should make a good study of http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/bitcoin-cold-storage-facility-looks-bond-villains-lair This is a Mad Max/ Book Of Eli scenario. One should not see the kid with his smart phone in his back pocket but rather the middle aged person with a lifetime of inherited wealth behind him. If you can follow this then follow it: those who created Bitcoin are the main holders!

  2. Vinny leaked email?
    That guy has been on my sh** list since his fud scared me into selling half my bitcoins. At 900 and 1100. That's something I'll never be able to recover from.

  3. I watched one of your previous videos when Bitcoin was $900 and on that you talked about Ponzi schemes and putting your money into them, what do you mean, can you explain and what Ponzi schemes are you talking about.  Thank you.

  4. Great guests! And a hole lot better than that clown from yesterday. 10% Bitcoin, 15% Ethereum Schmereum plus some Dripple to even it out.

  5. Thank you Jaccomo!
    "Crypto dividends" are nonsense as a concept;
    it's lipstick on a pig ;
    all forks and shitcoins have been harmful to Bitcoin's cause.

  6. Adam, you know whats going on in catalonia? they re talking with vitalik to create ICO coin for a country, thats scary. you can see news in cointelegraph

  7. The proliferation of BTC forks is going to diffuse and undermine the power of BTC to cannibalize gold, silver and other precious metals which is mostly owned by the few elite bankers. These forks will drive the prize of BTC to the sky but most of it will not come from hard assets, hard value commodities but will come from this cloned asset bubble forks. Copycats shall always remain as copies of the real cat. BTC is one of a kind of evolutionary genius, no other is like it. Play and mess with the blockchain technology, but all you greedy FUD fuckers just leave BTC alone!!!!

  8. Great show! I see crypto dividends as a feature and all the more reason to invest in Bitcoin. It doesn't change the fundamentals, meaning Bitcoin's potential price is still the same. It just allows everyone to secure a better position in the actual Bitcoin, thanks to the loons buying up the dividends. The 80% is Bitcoin's killer app right now! The argument that forks also fork off a corresponding amount of value does make sense, yes. But at the same time more value should pour into Bitcoin because buying BTC nowadays means you are more or less guaranteed getting 10% extra for free with this forking trend. I guess I'm overestimating the rationality of the market at this point.

  9. I think these "Crypto dividends" are a drain on the real Bitcoin value. Richard Heart has a good video debate with Rhett Creighton making a very good case for how these forks are bad.

  10. Time to buy Groestlcoin – #1 at Bittrex for 2 days for a reason. GRS!! Better than Vertcoin. BTC and all their ASIC Miners are centralizing BTC.

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